Beautiful Dreamer

Welcome back to Old Taku No Radio, episode 24, uh, our second anniversary episode, no matter what Ink says. Uh, we are covering the legendary, uh, Urusei Yatsura second movie,

uh, Beautiful Dreamer. And with us today, uh, we're pulling out some rather big old Taku guns and, and we're- ... bringing in, uh, the great and powerful Dawn of

Anime Nostalgia Podcast. Say hi, Dawn. Hi, Dawn. Wait.

And then there's, there's also my, my eternal, uh,

life partner in crime, uh, my, my, my brother from another mother, the, the booze and poetry correspondent of AniGamers, uh, the wonderful Ink. Hi, everybody. I've had a few

too many, so this may be a little slurry podcast. Or a standard podcast for those longtime listeners. Um- Don't sleep on Taku.

So yeah, uh, Urusei Yatsura: Beautiful Dreamer. Ink,

uh, finish drinking your beer and then give us a summary.

Let's see if I can actually pronounce the name of this high school first.

Tomobiki High is in a frenzy to get ready for the school festival. Props need to be made, costumes designed, and maybe somewhere sleep to be had. Ataru, Lum, Shutaro,

Shinobu, and the rest of Class 2-4 are determined to not be outdone this year, and they're rushing to make the final preparations for tomorrow's grand opening. Once they wake

up the next morning, they continue their mad rush to get ready for tomorrow's grand opening, and then the next day. Hey, isn't something strange going on? Silence lingers over

the city, the buildings filled with nothing but dust and mold. Is this a dream, or have the kids and a few related adults of Class 2-4 finally woken up?

If they can spend each day having fun with each other, does it matter?

All right. Thank you. So, um, all right, quick show of hands,

uh, which is great radio.

Um, but, but who has of us three seen any Urusei Yatsura outside of Beautiful Dreamer? Who? I think I see Dawn.

Me, me.

Me, me, me. I would have never guessed. Me.

Um, I've seen a little bit, but it's mostly been at cons, and I've mostly either been drunk or, like, completely, like, out of sleep. So, um, I will... I,

I'm certainly no expert in the series in general, even though I love Rumiko Takahashi, like, generally speaking. Uh, I- Ink, have you, have you seen any

Urusei Yatsura outside of Beautiful Dreamer? No, this was my first, and I was generally excited because everyone sort of flocks to Lum as a, a early anime icon. And,

um, I, I was like, "Okay, well, cool. She seems cute. She has the leopard bikini. Let's just see this rom-com teenage thing happen." Uh- Tiger stripe bikini. It's actually-

Tiger- ... actually a tiger stripe bikini, Ink. Oh, true. It is a tiger stripe bikini. I'm sorry. Because she- I did not pa- I did not pay enough attention

to the teenage barely clothed girl. She's based on the oni, and they wear tiger s- uh, a tiger, like, loincloth. So, so Dawn, you, I think probably far more

than either Ink or I, have, have deep experience with Urusei Yatsura. And now that I've built up your expertise, uh- Oh, no. ... te- tell us, tell us a

little bit about, uh, about Urusei Yatsura in general and, and just, uh, you know, some of your favorite tidbits about it.

So, Urusei Yatsura was Rumiko Takahashi's first big breakout hit. Like, this was, uh, pretty much a smash hit all across Japan. It was beloved by not only, um, boys

and men, but also girls and children. Uh, it was huge. Like, for, for her first real serial, this was, like, an amazing debut really. Um, and it was based

off of a short story she did that doesn't really have much to do with what the story became. Uh, but it was, uh... Basically, Urusei Yatsura is based off

of a lot of very Japanese folklore and puns and things that make it, like, very distinctly Japanese, which is why sometimes it's a little hard to explain some of

the things in it because you have to explain, like, traditional Japanese, uh, yokai and, uh,

uh, name puns and word puns. 'Cause, like, the title Urusei Yatsura in itself is a pun.

Uh, the sei part in urusei, uh, 'cause the word urusei is kind of like,

that's a word you would say to be like, "Oh, shut up, you're being annoying." Uh, but they replaced the sei part with the kanji for star or planet. So

it basically kind of

translates to, like, a really annoying alien or space person.

Uh, and yatsura is kind of like a group of, like, punk kids or annoying people. So, like, all together, it kind of means, like, those obnoxious aliens.

Which is, which is what they ended up, um, when they attempted to do a dub, that's what they called the dub. Mm. Yeah. Um, but, uh, that didn't really

fly, uh, 'cause it's just, it's really hard to,

it's really hard to translate some of these things into, like, English. But, um, but anyway, uh, so your basic story for Urusei Yatsura is,

uh, like I was mentioning, like the oni. So Lum and her family are from a race of aliens, uh, called the oni, which is based off of the, the

Japanese yokai of the same name. That's why they have horns. That's why they wear tiger stripe. Uh, that's why they have fangs. Uh, Lum's dad actually looks kind of

more like a traditional, uh, oni, like what you might see in, like, Japanese fiction. But, um, everyone else that you meet, it looks more like a regular person. They

just have, like, horns, and they constantly wear tiger stripes. Um, and one day, the oni set to invade Earth. They're like, "Hey, yeah, we're here, and we're gonna take

over your planet. But just to be fair, we're gonna give you one shot to maybe save yourselves, because, you know, we're, we're nice." Uh, and so they're like, "We're

going to randomly choose a champion of Earth, and that person has to play a game of tag with our champion," which happens to be their princess, Lum.

And if they win this game of tag, then the Earth is spared, and they'll go home. Uh, but if they lose, then the oni get to take over the

Earth.

And they're like, "Oh, that's fair, right? That's totally fair." Uh, so by,

uh, terrible, terrible luck, because that's also part of, uh, the pun

with Ataru, is that Ataru Moroboshi is picked, and he's basically, like, the world's worst person.

He, he's,

uh, a high schooler, and he's just, he's really, he's really loud. He's really obnoxious. He's a huge womanizer.

And

this is the person that gets chosen to be the champion of Earth. And at first, he's like, "Oh, man, I don't wanna do this. This is lame." But then

he sees who he has to play this game of tag against, and he's like, "Oh, I'm all for this." 'Cause Lum is, like, super cute. And so of course,

he's like, "Yeah, I'm into this." And Ataru is y- literally, as the youths say, the worst. He is the worst. He is... Um, I just did an episode about,

like, Urusei Yatsura in general on my podcast, and we describe him as he is the most horny on main

guy

basically in the universe. That is a true statement.

That is a true statement. No truer words have been said.

But, uh, so at first, he has this girlfriend, and her name is Shinobu. And, you know, he has three days to catch Lum in this game of tag, which

this in itself is also a pun or a joke on, uh, the oni, because in Japan, the game of tag is actually called oni's game.

So,

uh, that's why they're playing tag. That's why this all comes down to playing tag. Um, but anyway, so Shinobu, like, on the third day, like, Ataru still hasn't caught

her, and

Shinobu's, like, about to give up. She's like, "I don't care. Like, you just have to, you have to win by any means necessary. Uh, and if you do, I-

I'll marry you. I don't care. Just do it."

This is, like, her last-ditch effort, because, like, every- everyone's always like, "Why, why do you like this guy, Shinobu?" And she's like, "I don't know. I don't even know

if I like him."

But, uh- So she's l- she's, like, trying to get him to, like, not give up, and so this gives him, like, a little bit of, like,

energy, revitalization. So finally, he just does, he just pulls a dirty deed, and to beat Lum, he literally yanks off her bikini top. And while she is, like, embarrassedly

trying to cover herself up, he grabs her horns and declares, "Now I can be married," because he's won. Uh, but Lum takes this as a marriage proposal,

and so she's like, "Oh, of course I'll marry you, because now you're the Earth's champion." And he's like, "Wait, what? No, that's not what I meant." Uh, because as

a eternal womanizer, he wants to be single, and he doesn't want to be tied down really, even though he was just excited for the prospect of marrying Shinobu. He,

he's a very weird character. But, um- Very ... so because of this, uh, Lum decides to stay on Earth, uh, to be with her new fiance. And so she

moves in with him and his family. Uh, and she, she doesn't know how to live as a human, so she's a huge annoyance to everybody, because she's just, like,

so clueless. She doesn't know how to be a human. Um, she also has special alien powers. She can fly. She can float. Uh, and whenever she gets angry, she

electrifies Ataru with a lightning attack. And so that's how Lum basically comes into the picture and stays there. Uh, and but the, the whole cast of characters is huge.

We meet so many, uh, other alien, uh, personalities, because Lum has a lot of friends. So of course, she has a lot of alien girlfriends that come visit her,

or she goes and visits them. Uh, and then you have all the people that- Ataru and Shinobu go to school with, and, you know, their family and the teachers

and... So it's this enormous, enormous cast of characters, but they're all very unique and charming in that sort of Rumiko Takahashi way, kind of like Ranma and Inuyasha and

all that stuff. That is perfect, 'cause the next thing I wanted to, to bring up was Rumiko Takahashi herself and, and just kind of the, the sty- she ha-

she very much has a style, uh- Mm-hmm ... with her storytelling and with her, with her manga and her character. I mean, she has a very distinctive manga drawing

art style, like, in general, but, but her- Mm-hmm ... her whole way of telling a story and her, her kind of zany brand of comedy is- ... really idiosyncratic

to her, I think. Um, so, like Ranma 1/2, again, big cast of characters. All of them have really weird quirks. They all have this one thing. And the, and

the- Mm-hmm ... characters in Urusei Yatsura do that, too. Like, Shinobu is uh, is, is also apparently, like, a super soldier or something 'cause she's ridiculously strong. Yeah. She's

a lot like, uh, Kane in that respect when she gets mad. She can just, like, punch through walls and, and lift whole tables and - Yeah ... she just

f- she just finds this inner super strength somehow. Um, there's the, ah, I forget the guy's name, but he's like the, the, the handsome, like, military-esque kid with the

sword. Oh, Mendo. He's the rich playboy, uh, school chum that, uh, literally his family, like, owns the military and the police and everything. He has a tank that he

just, like, brings out for funsies. Uh, he has fighter pilot planes that he flies just to show off. He gets, he gets dropped into school by helicopter sometimes. Uh,

the joke with, with Mendo is he's basically Ataru, but, like, if Ataru was handsome and had money. Yeah.

And I think his name is a play on mendokusai, which is like- Yes ... a pain in the ass, basically. Yes. Um, it- A really annoying person. And, and,

and it is truth in advertising. Uh- Mm-hmm ... he, he is, he is actually kind of annoying. Uh, but not as annoying as Ata- as Ataru 'cause- No ...

again, as we have established, Ataru is the worst, like capital T, capital W. Yeah. Mendo is, like, he's, he's also kind of a womanizer, but he's charming, so he

knows when to, like, cool- Stop ... down and stop. Uh, but he is always kind of just, like, sliding up next to, like, Lum and being like, "Hey, Miss

Lum," you know? Mm-hmm.

He's that, quote, "nice guy." Yeah, yeah, definitely. Um, yeah. But, like, the, Takahashi in general, her... You know, she's g- she's done so many things, it's really kind of

ridiculous to kind of think about the, the breadth of her work. Like, um, this, Maison Ikkoku, One Pound Gospel, which I don't know that, um, that might've got turned

into an OAV, but, but I, I remember it as a manga. Um- Oh, One Pound Gospel? Yeah. Yeah, that, they definitely made an OVA. Okay. Uh, like it's, it

was like a one-shot OVA, I think. Um, yeah, th- that must've been a while ago. I think it was. Oh, yeah. I mean, they didn't even put it out

on DVD. It was- ... a long time ago. It was, it was tape. Um- It was VHS only, son. Woo.

The ancient way. Yes. Um, but then, you know, Inuyasha, and I think probably a lot of people are familiar with her work through Inuyasha, um, especially the modern age,

I guess. Yeah, 'cause that was the thing that, you know, that got aired on TV. Uh, and repeats of it ran for ages. Mm-hmm. So even after it was

finished, people were still discovering it because it was on TV. Yeah. It was, it was her Dragon Ball Z, for sure.

Yes. Um- Definitely ... almost as many episodes, too. Yeah. Um, but, but yeah, like, like her whole Kyokai no RINNE was the latest thing she did, which- Mm-hmm ...

I think I am on record as being one of two fans of, of, of that anime. Uh- ... but, but I, I, here I am. Um, a- again, very

much, you know, what you come to expect from one of her things, which is zany characters in really weird situations. And, um, you know, uh, uh, for the most

part, a lot of the, a lot of the characters in her, in her stories are all, like, not great people.

Like, like they're all- Yeah ... kind of flawed in a way. Yeah. They're all humanistic. Yeah. Mm-hmm. And I think that's part of the comedy is, like, look at

all the, look at all the terrible stuff that happens to these dumb people. Yeah. Yeah. Least I'm not those dumb guys. You know? That's how I feel about it.

'Cause that's kind of, that's kind of universal, right? Like, it's funny when, like, a dumb guy gets, like, his comeuppance. Like, it's funny. It i- it is funny. It

is. It, it, I, I laugh at myself when that happens to me all the time.

So, so Ink, as, as a, as a relative newcomer to Urusei Yatsura and, and just from Don's description, you know, puns, zany, wacky, Japanese folklore. I mean, it, this

is very Ink core it sounds like. Is, is, is that fair?

It, it was, well, the, the specific movie was very fair to say that, but it's not without its, uh, caveats as far as the, uh, creator is concerned because,

uh, Oshii, who directed this and also directed about 100 episodes of the original anime- Mm-hmm ... uh- That Oshii ... basically just-

That particular Oshii. The, yeah. Ma- You know, it's this guy named- Mamoru Oshii ... Mamoru Oshii, like you- Just that guy. You know. Um, he, he- No big deal

... he was basically just given ... creative control of this. Um, he went back and forth with the original creator very few times as, uh, uh, according to, uh,

some of the, uh,

tracks on the, uh, DVD- Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm ... the, uh, creator commentary. And he wanted to kind of invert everything he's done so far, 'cause he was kind of tired

of it. He's like, "Okay, these are class clowns. These are... You know, we've had the run-ins with many alien beings and whatnot. I wanna actually make these characters deeper

and, you know, explore them a bit." And then you have this movie, and it's totally my core because it's, it, it's weaving in, you know, a lot more mythology.

Or I don't know about more mythology. I don't know how of- how often the original series got into a lot of the fun, um, you know, particular myths. But

this one, uh, and mainly focuses on Taru and his visit to the, uh, the, what was it, Dragon Kingdom? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, uh, under- underneath the sea, and that

whole folklore, and, um, kind of ties in with a lot of other different, uh,

myths and folklore as well. But, uh,

yeah, this, this, this had me 'cause not only is it,

I, I want to say drawn to, like, alluding to war on some points and, like, some Hollywood movie aspects and- Mm-hmm ... it just has a lot of fun

with its visuals, and it knows it's doing it, and it can because it's a dreamscape, literally. Yeah. Like, this entire thing is nothing but imagination, so the author has

free reign, just like the director did, and you could do anything, and he did, and I think that's, that's really something to watch. So this, this to me was,

like, my perfect introduction to the series 'cause you could not provide a bigger hook

for me.

Yeah, one of the things- I liked your- Oh, oh, me or, or Dawn or, or... Sorry.

Uh, you, 'cause you're the next lesser experienced to the Utsuho. Oh, okay. Yeah. Um,

yeah, I, I've, I've been sitting here, like, struggling to remember what do, what do I remember from the TV show? And, and all I remember, and, and, and this

is, like, the culmination of probably 20-something years of being either drunk or sleep-deprived at, at conventions, is Ventura, Ventura, space people. That's all I remember. And that's, that's a

chant from one of the episodes randomly. That's all I remember about Urusei Yatsura other than this fine movie. Um, and, and I was, you know, reading the liner note,

and one of the things that, that Oshii says, uh, in, in, like, an interview snippet that's in there is, you know, Only You, the first movie, he, he focused

on the alien aspect of it. So he wanted to, to focus more on this, the, the kids and the school life of it. And imagine how it must have

been a novel idea in 1984 to think that way because, because, wow, that's, that's not exactly trailblazing nowadays. Um, but, but here we are. Right? Um, I, I love

it because I love Takahashi's work in general. Um, like, I knew what I was signing up for on, on some level just because she's great, and I'm a fan.

Um, a- and I, I was really excited to see, you know, Oshii's kind of visual stylings on top of, you know, a Rumiko Takahashi joint, you know? And oh,

man, it, it, it worked so well. They... Like, there's all the zany, goofy wackiness, and then there's some really beautiful, uh, visuals that, that complement everything, um, you know.

And the, and the freedom of that dreamscape, uh, like you, you mentioned, it kind of, kind of lends itself to that. Mm-hmm. Um, so it's, it really was, uh,

a great kind of reminder of, oh, yeah, this, this storied anime and manga franchise that's been out there for, you know, I think 40 years now might be a

good thing for me to get a little deeper into when I get some time 'cause it's, um, it was so much fun to, uh, to, to watch this, uh,

for the show. It's interesting to me that y- you bring up, like, Rumiko Takahashi in regards to this because Rumiko Takahashi famously hates this movie.

Like, she doesn't like it at all. Uh, I think she's just quoted with saying, like, uh, you know, "I, I wasn't very into it." Like, she was just like,

you know, "It's, it's fine." Yeah. Oshii did the screenplay for this as well as- Mm-hmm ... being the director for it, so which, you know, one might wonder how

Takahashi would have done this- Mm-hmm ... differently, but, you know, the world will never know. I, I... Yeah, that's interesting, though. And it's funny because this movie was also

not very popular in Japan when it first came out. When it first came out, fans actually hated it

because it was so different than what had come before it. Uh, even the first movie was so much different. And, um, there's even reports that, you know, back in

the day when it first came out, some fans were so upset that they sent Oshii razor blades in the mail. Oh my God.

They were just like, "How dare you?" Good to know that- How dare you ... fandom basically hasn't changed much. Right? Uh, so it's really funny because, like, nowadays, we

look back at this movie, and we're like, "Oh, it's a classic. It's so beautiful. It's so well done." Uh, but back then, like, so many Japanese fans hated this

movie. Like, they just did not like it at all because it was so different. They were like, you know, "Why is there this serious movie? Where's my wacky lightheartedness?"

Like, "Where's my dumb jokes?" You know, "What's, what's with all this artsy stuff?"

Um, which, you know,

like kind of surprised me, like when I heard about that as a fan like years ago. I was like- Mm ... "Really?" Because everyone I had met up to

that point was like, "Oh, you need to see this movie. It's so good."

And, uh,

I think one of the reasons why it got so popular over here, not just because, you know, it's a good movie, period, um, but it was also shown on

cable TV here. Mm-hmm. So this was a lot of people's actual like first introduction to Urusei Yatsura. Uh, which is funny because then they tried to get into the

series proper, and they were like, "Oh, this is not that movie."

Yeah. Yeah. And, and I, and I wonder, you know, I,

I, I love Rumiko Takahashi's stuff, but like there are, there are things about her, her works, particularly as anime, that, that grate on me a little bit. One of

them is that y- she really is not a fan of endings.

Like- ... at all. Yeah. There's a lot of open-ended, uh, stuff in her work. Yeah. Um, so that's one of the, one of the, the kind of the pet

peeves. But yeah, you know, like generally speaking, tonally, um, the, the anime proper is so very different. And I wonder how many of the other movies, 'cause there's like

I think nine movies or something crazy, like, um- Uh, there's six, I believe. Six movies. Yeah. I, I wonder how different the other movies are from this movie. Well-

Sure. Okay ... uh,

Oshii did the first movie, and the first movie is kind of like...

It's almost like a retelling of the first episode of the anime, but like with a different character. So there's like a new character that comes in, and she's basically

like an alternate version of Lum almost, and she wants to come in and she wants to marry Ataru. And so they kind of go through this whole like sort

of parallel between like, "Hey, she's a lot like Lum,

uh, but just slightly different. Like instead of long hair, she has short hair. Instead of green hair, she has red hair. Uh, but she is also an alien princess,

and she also wants to marry Ataru." Um, so it's not, it's not super heavy or anything like really different or unusual plot-wise, but visually it's, it's kind of a

fun movie. There's a lot of, uh, cool stuff that, you know, since it's a movie, it looks nicer than the TV show. Mm. And it, it's fine. And I

feel like that's actually not a bad introduction to Urusei Yatsura if you've never seen it, because it kind of just parallels a lot of the stuff from the TV

show. Um, but yeah, like you said, like when he did this movie, he was like, "What if I just totally turned it around into something completely different?"

But, um, a lot of the other movies are either original stories or based loosely on something that happened in the original like either TV show or manga. Mm-hmm. And

the, not the,

not the last movie, but the movie before, uh, the last movie, the Final Chapter, I think it's movie five- Mm-hmm ... um, is basically a movie version of the

end of the manga. Interesting. Yeah, I, I would love to see more

of the movies and, and I'm sure that at some point I would love to see more of the actual anime series itself, um, as long as I remember, "Hey,

don't expect an ending."

Just- Yeah. Well, uh, for the ending, you'd have to go to the, uh, the Final Chapter movie. Yeah, the fifth movie. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, they did a movie after

that called Always My Darling, uh, but that was like for the anniversary of the series, I believe. So it's just like an adaptation of one of the chapters of

the manga, I think. Hmm. Um, and the animation is a little... The character designer's different, so the animation style's a little different, um, 'cause it was a little newer.

I think they did it in the '90s. Oh, God. Um, so it's, it's not really my favorite looking movie, and it's like, eh, it's fine. Um, but I feel

like Final Chapter is actually pretty good.

Mm-hmm. Um, but yeah, the, the ending is kinda like

the end, question mark. Okay. So, so it-- Would you say, without obviously spoiling anything, but given, uh, if, if you've seen other Takahashi stuff or read other Takahashi stuff,

is it- Mm-hmm ... how definitive of an ending is it compared to some of the other stuff? Um,

it's not really definitive about anything really, but it felt more satisfying to me than like, say, the ending of Ranma. Oh, good. Yeah, 'cause my God. Yeah. I'd say

the, the most satisfying ending was probably, um, Maison Ikkoku,

because that actually has like a real ending. Yeah. Yeah. That one, definitive. Yeah. Or as definitive as you're gonna get from her, but I mean, pretty definitive. Yeah. Um,

yeah. Okay. Inuyasha had a final act, man. That's, that, that- Yeah, but didn't that come out like years later? Yes. Or so, like 10.

That's, that sounds about right. It, it takes, it takes Takahashi, like whether it's an anime or a manga, it takes her a long time to finally decide, "Okay, I'm

gonna end something."

Um, arguably, arguably like past the point where it would've been a good idea, but that's- Right ... that's, that's for the sages to debate, not, not, not I, but

yeah.

Well, it's a, it's a shonen manga series. You gotta keep cranking those out, right? You know? Oh, yeah. You sure do.

Which is, which is what makes this movie kind of possible, right? 'Cause this is a, a standalone time-stilled epic that just exists within itself for the fans. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Uh, and it's, it's, it's e-

explicitly for the, the director's, um,

exploration and, you know- Yeah ... have fun with. Um, he's basically just taking over the characters and running, uh, running wild with them. Mm-hmm. And that can be as

good, uh, for the audience as it can for the characters because, you know, he wanted to give the characters some depth, and he gave the audience something new, whether

that was hated or not, uh, because it wasn't just more of the same. Mm-hmm. But, you know, he actually brought about a new experience and brought some new dimensions

to these people. Um, and I, I, I really love, I really love this movie up to a certain point. When it starts going, uh, just sort of that snowballing

of dream upon failed dream, um- ... it started to lose me a little bit 'cause it's like, okay, I know you're having fun, but I kinda like the seriousness

of the before.

Yeah. Yeah, I, I, I liked that part. I felt like, you know, Oshii was getting real Oshii there.

Uh, towards the end. Well, my favorite, my favorite part of, like, that little ending, like, dreams and that kinda go into dreams and dreams, um... well, like, it's kind

of a spoiler, but not, like, a major one, but there's a part where, like, you see,

like, little girl Lum with Ataru- Mm ... and he's like a Frankenstein monster. And I was like, "Oh, this is really, like,

saying something here because this is how Lum sees him. This is how Lum sees Ataru, that he's, like, this... Like, everyone thinks, 'Oh, he's like a terrible, horrible monster,'

but I see the good in him." Yeah. And I was just like, "Awe." But- I, I, that's... I like that. That's- Yeah ... that's a cool read. Well, that's,

uh, that's how I saw it, like, especially, like, from a Hollywood sort of movie, like, thing. That's a very, that's a very Oshii way to project that, I felt.

Like, that felt like something- Yeah ... to me that h- that he was trying to say through that. Because that's a very classic and recognizable part of the, the

old Frankenstein movie, so I feel like that would read pretty universally. Mm-hmm. But, um,

uh, I hadn't even thought about that until I re-watched it, like, a couple years ago, and I was like, "Oh, I almost completely forgot about this part."

'Cause it's not very long. It just, it, you know, it's there and it's gone. Yeah. But, um, that, that was always my favorite part of that little weird thing

at the end.

I, I feel like Oshii does a lot of editorializing about the characters through his, through some of the things he does with them. Mm-hmm. Um, you know, you kind

of, you kind of learn his take on different characters. One of the, one of the things that, that is kind of shocking fairly early, um, is the, the, the

school festival setup is, you know, their, the, their class is doing a cafe and it's, like, a military-themed cafe, and it's kind of like a Nazi military-themed cafe. Yeah.

And I was like, "Oh, wow, that's very-

... that's very interesting." Um, but- Yeah. That hasn't aged well. No. And I kind of... And, and I have no idea if this is what he, what he, he

was intending, but I kinda felt like maybe he was taking a jab at the more right-wing, militaristic kind of

side of Japanese society. Um- Well- ... you know? I don't know ... if, if you... Like, he's, he, uh, in interviews he's talked about it, and if you listen

to the director commentary that's on the disc, um, he mentions that,

you know, back in the '80s, like, being a military otaku was, like, really common. Mm. And a lot of people that worked on that movie, himself included, really love

military stuff. Uh, like, guns, firearms, uh, planes, tanks, even- Mm ... 'cause he starts talking about, uh, Mendo's Leopard. Like, because he knows that tank. He specifically- Mm ...

put that in there because he's like, "I like this tank." Um,

and the Japanese, you know, not to be, like, making a general sweep- like, sweeping generalization- Mm-hmm ... but a lot of military otaku, especially back in the day, would,

like,

separate the meaning of those things from the thing they liked. Mm-hmm. Yeah. They were like, "Uh, yeah, it's, it's, you know, Nazi

war stuff. Yeah, but look how cool it is." Yeah. Like,

"This is so cool, you guys." I mean, Gucci did design those out. Or not Gucci, but, um, one of, like, like, one of, like... There was, like, a famous

fashion company that actually designed the Nazi outfits, like, believe it or not. Oh, yeah, that's right. I can't- I, it wasn't Gucci, but it was, like, um- I can't

remem- was it Versace? It might have been Versace. I mean, it was, like, still in business today, like, fashion icon kind of, kind of company. I know, I know

what you're talking about 'cause I've, I've read this before. Right. Well, that's like Volkswagen also did stuff- Oh, yeah ... for the Nazis, so. But, you know- Yeah ...

that was, hmm, years ago. But, I mean, yeah, even, uh, Oshii talks about how, like, he loved visiting America because he could go to a firing range- Mm ...

and shoot a gun, because you can't do that in Japan. Um, 'cause he thinks guns are cool. Like, he doesn't wanna hurt a person. Yeah. He just wants to

play with a gun and shoot a gun, and- Yeah ... you know, just be a nerd about it. And- And he's totally even against, like, shooting animals. He's just

like, "Nah, I just wanna shoot targets." Yeah. It's firing- I just wanna shoot a target. Uh- Yeah ... maybe a clay thing, like, you know, whatever. Um,

so but and, and then also,

uh, you have to think that, like, if you watch that scene, it's kind of like, um- Mm-hmm ... Megane, like, seems like he was the one who kind of

put most of the idea together. And,

like, Megane seems like the type, like he would've been a military otaku. Like, I could easily see that. Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. Especially in that, uh, post-apocalyptic, uh, version of

that anime. You know? Oh, yeah, 'cause he was, like, super into, like, you know, oh, survivalism and, like, you know- Yeah ... stuff like that. So that seems like

something that would've been right up his alley. And he does seem like the type who would be like, "Oh, well, we have to make everything really authentic, so, like,

of course there has to be, like, Nazi memorabilia on the wall." And, you know. Me- Megane really does come across as that guy. Like- Right? He is, he is

very that guy.

Which is funny, 'cause, like, he's a funny character, and I like him in the anime. But, like, he definitely has his moments.

Yes, he does. Is it cruel that I like him as the straight guy to the main character? Oh, to Ataru? Yeah. Yeah. Well, he, he and his little crew,

so it's, um, Megane, who... You know, he wears the glasses. That's why he's Megane. Uh, Chibi, he's the little guy. Um, Perm, because he has a perm. And, uh,

uh, Kakigori, I think his name is- Yeah ... which means, uh, buzz cut, 'cause he has a buzz cut. Those are Lum's stormtroopers, and they only appear in the

anime, really. Uh, like, they're in one panel of the manga, and then you never see them again. But, uh, Mamoru Oshii liked them so much that he put them

in, like, as reoccurring characters. Um, and they're sort of like

Lum's fan club, but they also, like, protect her. So they're kind of like her bodyguard/fan club, and that's why they, they call her, uh, them the, the stormtroopers. Mm-hmm.

And so they're kind of like whenever, like, say, they think Ataru is getting too close to her, they're like, "Hey, now, buddy."

So they, they kind of think of themselves as, like, protecting Lum's honor, like, all the time.

So in that- She doesn't need that. She does not need protecting in the slightest. No. She doesn't. She totally doesn't. She can take care of herself. I mean, obviously,

she's constantly, like, beating up Ataru with, like, you know, um, her, her lightning bolts and stuff like that. But- Yeah, I mean, she's basically, like, cute anime Thor. Like,

she's- She is okay. Yeah, right? She, she's fine. But, um, but it's really funny because l- it's like you said, they're those guys, so they feel like they have

to step in and be like, "Protect Lum's honor." And, and if you think about, like, otaku today, or if you even think about it in the context of, of

our somewhat namesake, uh, Otakudo video, like- ... like, those are those guys, man. Like, y- Mm-hmm ... like, you, you, you know these guys. You, you have- Yeah ...

you have met these guys. You have talked to these guys. You've been trapped in an elevator at a convention with these guys. I, I, I- You've had to stand

in line with these guys. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Definitely. So it's, it's interesting that, that Oshii br- kind of brings those characters into the forefront more, and they're kind

of an afterthought with Takahashi. Mm-hmm. But, you know, that's two, that's two highly talented and very different people taking different takes on, on something, I guess, so-

... it's, it's pretty crazy. This, this sort of serves as a moral lesson to other creators. Always keep involved with your works if you want them to remain your

works.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, back in the '80s, I assume it was a lot harder to keep in touch with, like, whoever was in charge of your anime, unless you were,

like, working directly with them. Mm-hmm. Like, if you were also a, y- if you happened to be a director or something like, say, um, Yaz was or something like

that. Yeah. Yeah. It seemed, it seems like the creators from those days, they kind of learned their lesson there, and then they're like, "Okay, never again." Let's talk a

little bit about the format of this movie because y- y- you know, y- uh, being, being something of a writer, I, I always think about plot structures and the

pacing and the beats of a movie. Mm-hmm. And this, this movie

has a very unconventional structure to it, I think, in a lot of ways. Like, they set up... They generally start out like you would expect most of these movies

to start out, set up establishment of characters, establishment of central question or problem. Mm-hmm. And from there, it kinda just gets really weird.

Which is on brand for Urusei Yatsura, though. It is. It absolutely is. Um, it gets very non-linear feeling. Mm-hmm. And it even kinda starts out, you know, it starts

out with that apocalyptic kind of imagery,

and, and you're, you're kind of wanting to check your disc and make sure that you didn't put in, like, some other, like, Mamoru Oshii, like, short film thing or

something, you know. But, uh, it starts out with this kind of apocalyptic thing, and then bam, you're back at the school, and, and, you know, it's school festival time.

And, and, and then it, it, as you get more into the, to the, the surrealism of the dream world, uh, and the multiple dream worlds, it, it really- For

me, it felt like it didn't really have so much of a structure as it was, here's a series of set piece gags that we're going to loosely connect, uh,

with, with the plot. It just, just enough to get to the gags, uh, and then eventually will end Except I think that's where Oshii's talent really comes in because

that very first introduction to the school is done with a, a, a false, uh, presentation because you get that image of the broken clock tower with no hands and,

but the, the bell is still chiming. Hmm. That's true. Um, and someone mentions offhand that, like, it's been working off that way for years or something like that. But,

um, Oshii said he wanted to create, uh, an everyday environment as it's just sort of that school life feel. But what he does is to, to create this sort

of tension and to build this slow sort of miasma of, uh, fear and trepidation, is he just takes out characters here and there. Hmm. So characters just begin to

disappear, and you may not notice because like Don said, it's a huge cast. And like you said, it's a, it's a huge cast. And, you know, people are familiar

with the series enough to the point that they would notice one of those people going missing. So like I'm relatively, like I'm like relatively new to the series, so

maybe I wouldn't notice a character going missing here or there, and not-- I didn't, honestly,

the first time. Um, but you know, every once in a while, I notice, hey wait, so-and-so's not around anymore, and, uh, that comes around in the plot line eventually

to them, uh, sort of waking up. But, uh, that building of tension by taking out characters I thought was a really nice device, uh, even, even as a newcomer

because it was like, oh yeah, look at that, look at that thing he did. That, that's no longer there, and now I'm vested because why? I need to know.

Mm-hmm. And he also... It's not just even the regular characters. Like, eventually you start noticing like, hey, where are all the other people in general? Like- Mm ... eventually,

like it's, it's like they go out, and there's no other humans anywhere, which is... It gives you this weird sort of anxiety feeling, uh, that I think Oshii kind

of said that that's what he was gonna kind of going for because like, it's like that feeling when you wake up in a different place, and there's no one

there, and you feel like, am I supposed to be here? Like, what's going on? Uh, because when the movie first starts, you see like all these other like students

and teachers, and they're all like frantically running around. But then like as the movie progresses, like you see less and less and less of them until- Mm-hmm ... there's

no one else but these core characters, and you're like, wait, where did everybody go? And at least some of those people end up being part of

kind of the, the... I guess the big reveal kinda comes in, in the middle of the movie of like what's, what's happened to the town, and it's basically literally

on the back of a giant stone turtle, and there's just this little, you know, like almost, you know, pizza cut of the town that's, that's left. Um, and it's,

uh, you, you've got the, the town, the disc of stone that the town sits on is being held up by several of the people who were, uh, initially being

looked for but were missing. Um- Mm-hmm ... and it's, it's really, uh, really neat. Have you ever seen that movie Dark, Dark City? Yes. I've, I've- It's kinda like

that. Yeah.

Where... 'Cause, 'cause at one point they're like, "Okay, we need to go home," but they can't go home because every place they go to, like the road will suddenly

change, and it just takes them back to where they started.

And it's a lot like, like if you've ever seen that movie, like nobody can leave. Like you're stuck here, and nobody can figure out why. I think that was

the exact same image too, like they used that big floating disc in space. Mm-hmm, yep. This one actually did a really good job with it 'cause they, they outsmarted

the, uh, the, uh, the prison guard as it were, and you know, took a Harrier jet out of, uh, the military otaku's garage and, uh, you know, went into

space 'cause Harriers can do that. And for- Yeah, he just so happened to have an emergency one that was hiding under, uh, the ramen shop near school. Yeah, an

emergency space Harrier. Just in case.

What better place to sit? But, uh, yeah, it was, it was, it was kinda nice 'cause the, the visuals on that, just them escaping their world and then sort

of observing this thing larger than themselves because each of these, uh, missing characters are portrayed sort of as Atlas holding up this, this illusion of a world. And, uh,

it was, it was a really great visual, and I was just stunned. I was like, why haven't I been watching Urusei Yatsura?

This, this is an amazing thing.

Yeah, so it, it kinda, it kinda... Once you get that reveal, then people start adjusting to the new state of nature, right? And it basically ends up with everyone's

gonna freeload at Ataru's parents' house. Yeah, because they're the only ones that still have electricity and gas and water- Right ... for some reason. For some reason. Um, and

that's kind of the, the plot point that has us kind of sliding into the final act where you have the, the reveal of the, the dream-eating demon guy and,

um, the- It's not a dream-eating demon guy. There's the dream eater, and there's the demon who grants dreams Well, yeah. Yeah, that's true. So it's the, it's the, the

demon that dr- grants the dreams that is sort of the bad guy here,

kind of, if it, if he could be... I guess he's a bad guy. Um- Anti-villain?

You actually, if you watch the TV series, he does show up in the TV series proper. And, um, Oshii just thought it would be interesting to play with that

character again, so he brought him back for this movie. And what's your, what's your take? Because you, you've watched more of it than either Jared or I. Um, I,

I heard tell that he's a lot more tame in the series than he is here. He's portrayed more maliciously here. Oh, yeah, yeah. In the TV series, it's kind

of like a, like a one-off goof. Um, it's, it's kind of the same in the manga too, 'cause I believe he's also in the manga. Mm-hmm. Um, but he's

just sort of seen as, like, a trickster, and he was like, "Oh, I almost had you kids, and you foiled me. I'm gonna go now." You know, kind of

thing. Uh-oh. Um, but in, in this movie, he's like, he's more of a, as he explains, he's like, "You know, I got sick of, like,

having to create all these dreams. What about me? I wanna make a dream and just stay there and not have to deal with this anymore."

Which brings it around to more of that creating that, those fuller characters, because instantly creating that sort of questioning of one's own life just brings a roundness to a

villain.

And it was also interesting that for him to really have his, his evil plan, he had to have the purest, most innocent dream he could find to really- ...

make it all happen. Mm-hmm. Which- Which, of course, is Lum. Yes, where she just wants to be with everybody all the time forever. Yeah, she's like, "Why can't I

just be with my darling and his family and our friends and our teachers?" Like, "it's so fun when we just get to hang out together and not have to

worry about everything." It's almost like the kind of, the positive version of Ataru, where he just wants to hang out and be... He wants to lust every, after all

the, all the girls, but not make a decision, whereas Lum has, has a positive intent with that. And she's like, "I just wanna be friends with everybody, and, like,

get to hang out all the time, like- Mm-hmm ... forever, and not be Stevie." You know? Like, um-

But you know who's the most put upon in this entire fantasy scenario, is the person who's making dinner for everybody, like, every night and- Oh, gosh ... just never

stops. Ataru's mom. Yeah. I felt so bad for her. I mean, at one point she's making, uh, I, I don't know if anyone noticed, but at one point she's

making so much food that she was, like, cooking spaghetti in a, in a washing machine- Yes

... be- because she was making so much.

And, like, the strain, there was a, the, like, I think the last time she shows up, she's cooking, like, fried rice or something, and the strain of it is

like, she's, like, straining to pick up this giant wok of food that she's made. And you, you can kinda hear it in the, the, the performance of, of the

voice, and it's like, wow, that's, that's intense. Yeah, it's like a restaurant-sized wok. It's like an industrial wok, and she's, like, throwing the whole thing up in the air

to make fried rice. The best thing I thought about that was the weight of it when it came down, because the, the animation follows through with it. When that,

when that rice comes back into that wok, it not only lands in the wok, but the wok follows through to the grill, and you hear the thump, and you

h- you see her fall over with it- Mm-hmm ... because it was too much for her to just catch. It's like, "Oh, man."

Yeah, the, the kind of the, the playing with the absurd is, is one of the big themes, I think, that, that carries through pretty well, um, you know, from

general what Takahashi likes to do in her work to this movie. Mm-hmm. Like, that part, I think, definitely, definitely shines through, despite the, the seriousness of the, the movie

at times. Um, particularly, p- particularly, like, just to speak of the seriousness again, I think one of the things that was the most dissonant for me but yet effective

was the, the sci-fi dream that- Yes ... could have been, like, Megazone 23,

y- you know, kind of, kind of setup. Uh- Oh, when he wakes up in the, in the capsule thing? Yeah. Yeah. And they spend some time there, and they

kinda sell it there for a minute. And, you know, even though you're, you're, you know, like, "Hey, this is, this is a dream," and, you know, there's a whole

lot of other movies, and it's a movie, so obviously if she's dead, they're gonna, like, bring her back somehow. But, like, you know, the, it really, um, it did

not feel like on brand for, for the show, right? Mm-hmm. But, but it felt really effective, uh, in the, the, the s- in the scope of the movie, uh,

that, that particular scene. You know, it really, it kind of put, like, a, an exclamation point on that, hey, this is kinda serious. Yeah. And when you first see

it, you might, like, get the impression, like, "Oh, is this, is this actually happening?" But, uh, but yeah, l- I remember the first time I ever, I ever saw

it, I was like, "Oh, is this, is this actually it?" Like, uh. And then like two seconds later you're like, "Oh, no, no. This is- Mm-hmm ... this isn't

it."

Yeah. But like you said, that shared theme, because you were just on a huge city atop a space turtle, so, you know, going to cryo chambers just opening seems

kind of logical, like dream logical. And, uh, it could be, which lends that huge drama impact of that broken wire, the life-sustaining thing for his, uh, friend/love interest. And,

uh, you know, when, you know, you obviously see, don't see that she's not living, and he's just

broken over it. That really hits home, and I did not expect that from this movie at all 'cause, uh, it, it was, it was light-hearted, and it had its,

uh, fun,

uh, visual enchantments. But, like, nothing really emotionally had grabbed me until that point. And I was like, "Oh, shit, now I am him." Like, I totally get his character

at that moment. Yeah, and, uh, this, this is one of the reasons why I think a lot of people, uh, even though it, it's still kind of a polarizing

movie for some fans, uh, but a lot of fans did enjoy it because you get that sort of like, oh, I actually care about Ataru for a change. Like,

how did that happen?

Because you get to see, like, him actually, like, show some sort of, like, real feelings, uh, about Lum, 'cause he usually avoids them at all costs. Mm-hmm. Uh, because

he wants to, you know, pretend to be like, "Oh, well, I don't really care because, you know, I'm a playboy. I don't, I don't need to settle down. I'm,

you know, young and free." Uh, but with this movie, like, he- Ataru does such a good job selling you on, like, the actually, I really do love Lum a

whole lot- Mm-hmm ... but I am too embarrassed to say it, and now it's too late. It's, it's kind of one of those things where Ataru is the, the

eternal kind of manchild, I don't wanna ever grow up. I just, I wanna, I wanna stay, I want, I wanna stay free. I don't wanna have commitment, and I

don't wanna have responsibilities, and I don't wanna have to, to, to, to really put myself outside of my own perspective and, and care about someone else. Mm-hmm. Uh, but,

like, that moment challenges all of that. Um, and to, to see him go through that moment in particular, I think was, was really, was really great- Mm-hmm ... um,

and, and one of my favorite parts of the movie. Yeah, it's, it's one of the reasons why I can't totally hate Ataru.

Like, he's, he's a messy, terrible character, and like, he's that guy, like we were saying, but, like, he also just really cares about Lum. Like, deep in his heart,

he really, really does. Mm-hmm. And you, you're just like, "Oh,

you, you poor little boy. You need to just... All you need to do is grow up and admit it." Yeah. Just admit that you love the really cute space

princess thunder goddess. Like, it's- Who's hanging on your arm. Yeah. Who is literally your fiancee. Like, God.

Yeah, yeah. Oh, is this the only installment of this, uh, property that elicits such a reaction? Is there any hint towards that in any of the episodes prior, in

any of the movies after, um, or is this, like, the sole excuse for having some sort of sympathy for that character? Well, I think it's one of the best

written, uh, and best portrayed. Uh, but there are, like in the TV show and in the manga and in other movies, like, there are, you know... The big emotional

reveal is n- almost like, oh, actually, he really does care about her. He's just too shy or embarrassed to say anything, and it comes up sometimes. And,

you know, sometimes you're just like, "Oh yeah, I expect this." But

depending on what it is, like, when it's really, really well done, like, you feel it. And I think this movie was, like, one of my first proper exposures to

the series. So very early on, I had it in my head, "Oh, he really loves her." Mm-hmm. "He really loves her." And so that kinda carried with me throughout

the series. And so n- you know, then when I started watching it properly, I was like, "Oh, there, there it is. I see it. He really loves her."

Like, there would be these little tiny bits and pieces of it. Um, but then, you know, he'd go right back to just, you know, being old, old, old, horny

Ataru. And that's kind of a, that's kind of a, a standard thing, I think, with a lot of Takahashi stuff. Like, Ranma ½ are sort of the same way.

Yeah. I think that's the biggest comparison, like- Mm-hmm ... um- Or Inuyasha and Kagome. Yeah, true, true. They hate each other. They love each other. They hate each other.

You know? Yeah. Uh, it's, um,

it, it, that, that tends to be a standard thing. Mm-hmm. But, but again, you know, Takahashi could play it just right, and it's, it looks like within the scope

of this movie, oh, she channels that m- that trick of hers pretty well. Yeah, I would say so, 'cause this, this movie was probably what really made me go

like, "Okay, I think I need to, like, seriously watch some of this a little bit more." Mm-hmm. Because, like, I think I, like you, Jared, I think I had,

like, offhandedly seen some of it at, like, cons, uh, at that point. But, like, I was like, "I don't know if I really get this." Like, 'cause every time

I saw it, it would be, like, not translated. Yeah. And so I would be like, "What is even going on here? Like, I don't really get it." Uh, but

then, you know, once I started getting, like, the official releases and stuff like that, like, AnimEigo was really good about having very detailed liner notes, uh, in their releases

back in the day when it was- ... available here. Yeah. Um, and so they, they went out of their way to, like, explain, like, "Oh, this is a pun

on this, this is a joke on this." Uh, you know, "Here's an explanation of this Japanese thing they're doing." Um, so I felt like I was also learning a

lot about some very Japanese things while I was getting into the series. Because, uh, the manga was also coming out at the time, way back then. But, you know,

back in the day, stuff got localized way more heavily than it does now. Yes. Uh,

localized to be more American, I guess I should say. Um, so, like,

they would try to explain things as best they could, but, like, sometimes the, the, the, the new jokes that they would come up for it would be like, well

yeah, that, that's a good joke and I get that, but it's not really what the original joke was saying, because you had to change it to something American, like,

that an American would understand. Which I get, because back then, like, they were trying to sell comics in comic stores. Mm-hmm. Like, manga wasn't as prevalent as it is

now, and so it was like, well, we need to try to sell this very Japanese thing to, like, someone who their closest experience with Japanese culture is the sushi

restaurant down the street, you know? So- Yeah. So it was difficult, so I, so I get that. And, you know, they tried their best. They really did. Uh, 'cause

I bought, like, all of those Viz releases back in the day, and I was hoping they would get through the whole thing, but they never did. Um, so I'm

really glad they're, they're bringing it back because now they can just, like, throw in some translator notes in there and be like, "This is what this is." So do

you, do you think...

Well, I wan- I wanna hold that for a minute because, 'cause that, that, the question I have starts to sound like more of a, of a, of a closing

question. But, um- Mm-hmm ... but do we have, do we have any other kind of general thoughts about the movie before we, before we turn to, to Twitter questions?

Uh, yeah. There's, there's some interesting stuff Oshii says, uh, about his own influences on the film that I think are pr- uh, really prevalent. Mm-hmm. Uh, like, just to

sort of reemphasize how much of his movie this is as opposed to Takahashi's. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Um, the director recreated settings from memories of his own past to tell, to,

to set the story, so train lines, school buildings, uh, et cetera. So in a way, you know, as much as this is a dream within a dream story, this

is a dream within a memory of Oshii's.

Um, so it's very much putting his own essence into the characters. So, you know, I can see, as Dawn said, this is, this is a very divisive, um, film

in the property. Um, but I think if you keep it in mind in that sort of context,

it makes it very clear why. Like, you're not watching a continuation of the series that he has done in the past. You're watching his autobiographical interpretation of the series,

and I think that's really cool.

Yeah. I think, didn't he say that the train line that they run on, he modeled it after, like, the Shinjuku line that he was always, uh, running on or-

Mm-hmm ... something like that? Mm. Yeah. And, um,

he, he based a lot of, like, the tone and the mood of the night shots from, like, when they would be working really late at night, and they'd have

to go out and, like, go get, like, a snack or a drink or something, and there'd be, like, nobody around, and the streets would be really quiet, and it

felt kind of, like, uneasy. And so he wanted to sort of carry that over into, like, the feeling of the movie, that weird sort of uneasiness you get when

you go out late at night and there's nobody around. Yeah, he said that, like, the, the crew's collective sense of delirium led to a sense of deja vu that

went to the, went towards that feature's plot. Yeah.

I also liked how he

compared himself to Onsen Mark, the teacher- Mm ... because he was like, you know, Onsen Mark shows up, and he's like, you know, see... He was like, "Look at

Onsen Mark." He's like, "He's so tired. He's got bags under his eyes. He's just yelling at these kids to get all this stuff done. He's, he's like me. He's

like the director. He's trying to get all these kids to, like, do their jobs." And, you know, it's hard. It's really hard, and it's really stressful and exhausting. So

I feel, I feel for Onsen Mark. Like, he was like, "Him and I, we're like the same." That is amazing.

And I was like, I could see that. I also love that, um, in several scenes, uh, the animators, like, drew themselves in.

Um,

and, uh, I think also the character designer and one of the key animators is, like, at the end where they're putting the, um, the, the title banner up for

the title of the movie. Uh, it's, like, a couple of the, the staff people. And, um, oh, and because this is a Toho movie- Godzilla Oh, yeah ... there's

so many, like, if you look in, like, a lot of the crowd sequences, there's, there's Godzilla. There's, like, Godzilla monsters. There's, like, Mothra. There's Gamera. Uh, y- you see,

like, a lot of, like, tokusatsu, like, suited guys.

Especially during the school festival, festival, uh, whatever. Yeah. Definitely. And it was because the, uh, he said the animators were so excited because they were like, "Oh, we can

put all this stuff in here, and nobody can yell at us because they're Toho properties." And we're, we're doing this with Toho, so like they can't, they can't yell

at us Because it's their stuff. Yeah. Fur- further tidbit on that, the uh, the Godzilla, uh, uh, little short that's in there that they're watching on TV, uh, was

actually not a, a, a, a clip because they couldn't put a clip in the show at that point technologically. But the animators actually recreated that, like frame by frame

with static and blur from like what would be television effects. Um- Oh, no, they were watching it in that outdoor... It was like the ruins of a theater. Yeah.

So they were watching it like in a theater, but it was like outside. Uh, so there's like film grain and stuff 'cause they, uh... And they did that all

from memory too because- Yeah. Mm ... they said back then it would have been too expensive to buy the tape to copy like- Mm ... what the tape looked

like. So the animators were such nerds, they recreated it from memory. Imagine how many meetings there were just to get that right. Like-

Like,

I, I'm... There were probably full-on meetings, multiple full-on meetings to get- Oh, yeah, I- ... that scene right. I'm sure there were like s- three or four different like

animators going, "Hey, come here, come here, come here. This is right, right? Like we all saw this movie. Like you come here." Like- "Do I need to change anything

in this cut?" Mm. "Do you think it looks right?" Um- Pinky up, pinky down.

I als- And it, it ends up looking like a... It, it, it ends up looking like what somebody would recall it from memory too, especially, especially those early rubber

suit Godzilla days where Godzilla- Yes ... got kinda the poofy, the poofy cheeks and stuff. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Oh, it was- Definitely ... that was awesome. It was a labor

of love because they, you know, the animators were all nerds, and they were like, "We gotta put a Godzilla in here. We gotta do it. We gotta." And it,

I mean, it's like a, like what? It's like two, three seconds max. It's not very long. Oh, no, not very long at all. But they, they lovingly cre- recreated

that because they just wanted it in there so badly. I also thought it was cute, like speaking of the, the Toho thing, um, if you look at the Dream

Eater, the, the, that little piggy thing. Mm-hmm. Um, if he turns around, you see there's like a little copyright stamp on his butt. Mm-hmm. Uh, they put that there

because the joke was that like Toho is so, like...

They're so obsessed with like their own characters and like, "Nope, this is our characters. Copyright. Do not steal," that they thought it would be k- like funny to just

like put a big copyright stamp on his butt.

That's hilarious. So they're- ... they're, they're dunking on Toho even though it's Toho film.

Yeah.

Exactly. That's, that's pretty amazing.

And, you know, no one probably even noticed or cared, but I thought that was funny that he pointed that out in like the commentary. 'Cause he was like, "Oh,

yeah, you can see kind of, there's like a little, a little like stamp on his butt. That's why we put that there." I totally saw it, and I was

just like, "Nah, it couldn't be like an actual copyright symbol." And then I watched the commentary, and I was like, "Oh, okay." It's funny because like if you, if

you think about it, there's actually a lot of like Mamoru Oshii-isms in the movie that like are kind of easy to miss. Like his whole,

uh, his stance on like, you know, capitalism is bad. Like, one of the interesting things that you see throughout the movie is just how like even though,

like there... It's like this post-apocalyptic thing, like the world is, quote, basically ending, and like everything's falling apart. Like what, what did like half of the kids do? They

went and they grabbed as much junk as humanly possible. And like in the beginning of the movie, you see them like hanging out with like all these stereos and

like, uh, speakers and radios. And like the world is falling down, but they're like, "Oh, it's okay. We got like, we got this hi-fi. We got the stereo. We

got records. This isn't so bad," you know? They're just clinging to like what little capitalism they know.

I mean, they even go so far as to like leave IOUs in the, uh, in the convenience store because that's important. Like you have to have the official like

receipts, and everything has to be accounted for because we can't be stealing 'cause that would be wrong,

even though there's literally no one left in the world. And the store automatically replenishes by some means everything they need. Yeah. And there's, there's always a newspaper waiting for

them, and it, it, it's really funny how like he stuck these things in. And like you wouldn't really think about that, but like that's definitely a Mamoru Oshii like

ism like directly into the movie. Yeah. That's interesting that... But, but you're... And I, I didn't, I wasn't really going out of my way to think about that because

I'm like, oh, look at this wacky movie and the dreamlike stuff. But yeah, now that, now that you're pointing it out, I'm like, oh, man. Yeah, that's like- Mm-hmm

... ooh.

It's, there's so many just levels of this movie. Like y- you, if you're not paying attention, like it's easy to miss. But like if you, if you really think

about it, like especially just Mamoru Oshii, like if you think about it more of a Mamoru Oshii movie than like an Urata Sayatsura movie, then these things start like

being a little bit more apparent. Mm-hmm. Um, uh, Brian Ruh actually wrote a book about Mamoru Oshii, and his notes on Urata Sayatsura in the book are really, really

good.

Uh, so if like anyone out there listening wants to know more about like maybe Mamoru Oshii's like sort of

mindset when he was thinking about these things like so long ago, um, outside of, you know, just the commentary he did, I feel like Brian Ruh really got- ...

into, like, the meat of it. Mm. Like, he really hit a lot of really good key notes, uh, for not just this movie, but also, like, the other Urusei

Yatsura things he did.

Awesome. Also, follow him on Twitter for excellent puns.

Yes, definitely. But, uh, the book, uh, I don't know if I said the name of the book, but it's The Stray Dog of Anime.

Hmm. Is what the book is called. Okay.

We'll, uh, we'll put that in the show notes.

Hmm. Yeah, I recommend it, especially if you like Mamoru Oshii's other films as well. Yeah, just found the link to it, so there we go.

And continuing on with what Dawn said about, you know, recognizing things, uh, making it easier to sort of realize what the movie was saying, um, in terms of folklore,

the s- the second the pig is introduced and you know its name, that should be a huge tip-off. But I had no, uh, I had no former knowledge of,

uh,

Boku, or is it Baku? Baku. Boku? Baku. Yeah. Baku, yeah. Um, which is literally a dream-devouring or nightmare-devour, d- devouring pig. Um, so- ... the second that's introduced and

the, the second the notion of dreams come up, 'cause you could, you could sort of pass off the pig's name as being a joke because it's a pig, and

it eats a lot, so haha, it's Baku. Um, but the second the dreamscapes start being introduced, it's like, oh, wait, there's gotta be some sort of mastermind behind it,

and should be a really quick giveaway. But if, if you, if you

have that, if you've, you've, if you've been raised with that mythology behind you, um, I'm sure you'll catch on a lot quicker. Me, it wasn't until I actually, you

know, started researching the, the pig's name, and I was just like, "Oh, okay." Yeah. "That's a thing."

Yeah, when, when I first watched it, there were, like, I had no idea what Baku was. Um, but, um,

if you are familiar, like you said, with, like, Japanese folklore and mythology and things like that, a lot of stuff becomes much more

clearer.

And, um, and you see where, like, the thought process was to be like, "Oh, this makes sense. Let's do this," you know, with the whole, um, the Taro and

the Dragon Palace and, like, all that stuff.

So any other thoughts before we, before we jump to Twitter questions?

I- There's a couple. Oh, I'm sorry. Go ahead. No, go right ahead.

I am really glad that this movie

was, I...

I mean, I love all of Urusei Yatsura, but this specific movie used to be something that, like, I would show to people to get them, like, kind of interested

in it. Uh, because, you know, at the time, it, it was such a,

it was such a different movie. It was such a groundbreaking movie that, like, I could show this to, like, almost any anime fan, and they'd be like, "Whoa. I

don't even know if I got all of that, but that was something," you know? Like, most people would be like, "This is a really interesting movie. Like, whoa." Um,

it would be kind of disappointing for some because they would s- watch the series proper, and they'd be like, "Well, that's different than the thing you showed me" .

Yeah. But, um, it was a general crowd-pleaser, and I'm so glad that out of all of the things that, uh, out of all of the Urusei Yatsura things, that

this is something that's widely available again, um, especially on Blu-ray. Because, uh, I mean, I've had, like, the old Central Park Media DVD for, like, ever, and one of

the things that always was annoying was that it was full screen only. Hmm.

And

th- that bothered me for so long because I was like, "I know this was a theatrical movie. I know there's a letterbox format version out there." Mm. Yeah.

Uh, so now that we have this, like, really great Blu-ray, because for, uh, for a while I was actually contemplating, like, importing it because Japan got it first, obviously,

and 'cause it's just a favorite of mine. So I was over the moon when Discotek, uh, announced they got it and they released it. Like, I pre-ordered it, like,

day one. I was so excited, and I'm so glad that, like, it's also available streaming on, like, a ton of places now. So, um, I mean, it is the

only Urusei Yatsura thing over here currently as of this recording. Mm-hmm. Um, but it's one of the best parts of the anime, so I'm really thankful that we have

that again, and it's kind of appropriate because, like I said, like, this was shown on, like, the SciFi Channel's Saturday anime, like, with no other Urusei Yatsura things, just

this. So this thing was, like, a lot of people's introduction to not just Urusei Yatsura, but Mamu- Mamoru Oshii in general. Yeah. So, so it's kind of interesting that

that's coming full circle again and that's happening again.

So this, this question's gonna sound more valedictory than, than I think it, it, I want it to be at this point in the show. But, uh, do, do you

guys feel like the, the release of Beautiful Dreamer, uh, in a, in this beautiful b- Blu-ray, it looks, it looks so good on Blu-ray. Um- Mm-hmm ... uh, you

know, it, it's still, it's still very much a product of its time, but- Gosh, I mean, it's a really great product of, of its time. Mm-hmm. Um, and do

you feel like that might lead to more of a renaissance of, of, of Urusei Yatsura coming out again here in the US? Do you... Especially, you know, Takahashi got

an Eisner, which, you know, she's won every other award on the planet, so- ... it's probably not a big deal to her, but, you know, the recognition at least

in the, um, in, in Western comicdom of, of her prowess and her genius. Um, do you feel like we might see more releases of Urusei Yatsura or maybe Takahashi

stuff in general, like something of a revival?

Well, I think we've already kind of seen a bit of a revival 'cause, like, Ranma finally came back out here. Uh, not just the, the manga that we finally

got, like, unflipped for the first time ever. Uh, but they re-re- they re-released the TV series, the movies, the OVAs all on Blu-ray. And, like, I remember when they

announced all of that, like, so many people I knew were, like, so excited. They were like, "Oh my God, remember Ranma? Remember how good Ranma was?" Uh, so I,

I feel like that kind of paved the way for this movie because people were already like, "Oh yeah, remember how great this stuff was? Oh." And I feel like

that also lent to, uh, you know, the announcement at San Diego Comic-Con this year that, like, Viz was like, "Hey, guess what? We're gonna finally release Urusei Yatsura, like,

properly, like, unflipped and, like, the way it should be." I mean, I was literally in tears because I did not ever think that would happen. Like, I was, I

was one of the, like, what, maybe t- 20 people on Twitter who, like, every time Viz was like, "Hey, we got a survey," I'm like, "Urusei Yatsura, please."

Or, or my other thing, Mazen Ikoku, please. Yes, Lord, please. I would love to see that come out here, um- And, uh- ... in a good, proper way ...

yeah, 'cause, like, I have, like, the, the nice manga release they did, not, not the, the flipped one, but when they did the unflipped one. Uh, but, like, that's

out of print now, and it's really hard to get all of it 'cause, you know, it's out of print. Uh, but it, and it's only 15 volumes, and I'm

just like, "It's only 15 volumes." And if you did, like, the omnibus, it'd be even smaller. But, um,

but yeah, I feel like

if, if the manga starts selling well, and I know that the, the Beautiful Dreamer Blu-rays have to have been selling well because al- like almost everyone I know has

bought one.

So

I feel like- It was, it was an insta buy for me as soon as I heard it was coming out. And I'm like, "Yeah, yeah, picking that up." Right?

So I feel like we are primed and ready to get more of the anime to come out, and I really hope that, like, if, if by Viz or by

Discotek or anyone who wants to pick it up, um, I hope that they know that, like, you know, yeah, we're ready. We, we got money. Let's, let's do this.

'Cause I know, I mean, I still have a bunch of my AnimEigo DVDs, you know, back when they were selling them one DVD at a time. Mm-hmm. I mean,

I don't have the full set because I was... That's, that was a lot of money. But I have, like, a good chunk of the TV show. I have all

the OVAs. I have all the movies. I still have them because I was like, you know, "Oh, I gotta get these before I can't anymore." Mm-hmm. And that day

came. Like, they were like, "Oh, we don't have the license anymore. You know, Lum's going bye-bye. We're sorry." Um, so I keep holding on hope because, like, it is,

it's such a huge series. It was like, this was the thing that made Rumiko Takahashi famous, and, like, Lum is such a recognizable character that, like, um,

a few years ago when I was at Anime Fest, we had, uh, the voice of Lum, the voice of Ataru, and the original character designer for the anime, Akemi

Takada, and they were all talking- Wow ... about how, like... They were all talking about just how this, this series, like, changed everything, and it changed their lives. It

changed anime. It was, like, huge. Like, the influence this show had cannot be denied. Uh, they even said, like, there was, like, some sort of, like, TV survey where

they showed people just the colors yellow, black, and, like, teal, like the color of, like, Lum's outfit and her hair, and they asked people, "What does this make you

think of?" And almost everyone would say, "Lum."

Like, Lum is so recognizable, you can literally show people the colors of her character design, and people are like, "Oh, that's Lum."

They did the same thing with a meme with, um, Haruhi, I believe, uh, like 10 years ago, though. And, uh, I don't know if there'd be that much fervor

for Haruhi to come back. No, probably not, but, like, you know, Urusei Yatsura ran for, like, uh, quite a while, and then there were, like, you know, the OVAs

and stuff kept coming out, like, in the '90s. So, like, well into the '90s, people were still caring about this series and the characters. And, like, we're seeing, since

this year was the 40th anniversary, like we're seeing... I don't think I've ever seen as much new Lum merchandise coming out as I have now. Like, it's like every

other month, there's like, "Here's 10 different things on AmiAmi for you to order."

And I'm always like, "Why don't I have more money so I can buy them all?" But, um- There's fan art galore too 'cause my Twitter feed is just, like,

perpetually, uh, punctuated by, you know- Lum pics. And, you know, it's just all fan art, and it's, it's a wonderful outpouring of love for this character. Oh, yeah. And

it's, it's really cool because, um, you know, when they were talking to Fumi Hirano, she's the voice of Lum, um, ironically, you know, she used to be a radio

DJ before she ever did voice acting. And she literally just got into voice acting because, like, some of her fans were like, "You would, you would be good in

anime. You have a great voice." And she was like, "You know what? You're my fans, and you know me better than anybody, so sure, I'm gonna, like, try this

anime thing out." And literally, the first ever thing she ever auditioned for was Lum, and she got Lum. Imagine, imagine hitting that jackpot. I mean, like- Right?

... that's, that's kind of insane. What are the odds? Like, the very first thing you ever auditioned for becomes, like, one of the most iconic characters ever made in

Japan. Like, it's, it's nuts. And, um, she also talked about, like, um... Well, we didn't mention it before, but Lum has a very, uh, noticeable, like, verbal thing that

she does in Japanese where she ends most of her sentences with, um, "dacha." Like, that's her little, her little thing. Um, and

Rumiko Takahashi came up with that because she wanted her to sound, like, kind of different, you know? Like, 'cause she's an alien, so she would speak a little differently.

And that's also why she calls Ataru darling, because she thought it would sound, like, cool, like a foreign, foreigner would say something like that. And she's like the ultimate

foreigner. So, um, what I thought was really cool was at some point in the anime, like, Fumi Hirano asked the director, she was like, "You know, what if I

made variations? Like, what if I didn't just say, like, 'Dacha,' all the time? What if I said, like, 'Dacha ne?'" Or, you know, stuff like that. And he was

like, "Oh, that's brilliant." Like, "Yeah, totally do that." And Rumiko Takahashi loved it so much, she put that in the manga.

So at one point, like, the anime and the manga were sort of, like, feeding into each other- Mm-hmm ... which was interesting.

That's really cool. Yeah. So, like, this, it was such a phenomenon. And then, like, after Urusei Yatsura, like, everyone wanted to make the next Urusei Yatsura. Everyone wanted to

have, like, oh, here's, like, the, the big cast of cute girls, and there's, like, one hapless dude. And you know, that became, like, a thing. Like, Tenchi Muyo, like,

that's, like, basically a weird

Urusei Yatsura knockoff. That was, that was immediately what came into my mind. Uh, as soon as you said that phrase, that was the very first thing. It really has

become an archetype, though. Yeah. Um, and, and, and maybe, maybe that's the prototypical harem anime, really.

Yeah. A lot of people basically point to Urusei Yatsura as, like, sort of the proto harem show or series or manga because it has that formula, even though it's

like that's not how the formula works now.

Because, like, now we have the formula where, like, oh, there's one dude and, like, all the women, like, wanna get with him. Whereas this one is like there's one

dude and, like, all these women wanna kill him.

All right. So let's, let's move on to Twitter questions. We've got a few here. Um,

the, uh, the first one- I probably didn't place them in the right order. Oh, yeah. Yeah. It's, there's a few. So thank you for, for the Twitter questions. Um,

the first one is from, uh, some ne'er-do-well named Grant, who's @grantthethief on Twitter. Um- Hi, Grant. We love you, Grant. Um, and his question is, "For someone who has..."

It says bo experience, but I'm pretty sure he means no experience. "For someone who has-" He has a cold. Oh, well, there you go. And I, I have- Bo

experience ... bo experience with Twitter typos too, so I mean, I-

Very bo experience with that. Um, "But for someone who has no experience with the franchise, is this a good place to start?" I feel like we kind of talked

about that, but, but Ink, you have no experience with the franchise. Do you feel like this is a good place to start? Do you feel like you'd wanna learn

more?

I'm gonna be the wet blanket. I'm gonna say no. Um, I feel like this is, at least as coming from the director of this movie, which, you know, comes

with very heavy hand, um, that this is sort of, like, the high point of expression with these characters. This is the roundest they get. If you go outside of

this movie to the general series, it's just, you know, a fun comedy. Which there's nothing wrong with a fun comedy, but I like a little more meat. I like

a lot more character and fun with visuals than most comedies, uh, uh, deal with. Mm-hmm. So- Oh, like- I mean, not have, not having watched- You mean like- ...

any of the- You mean like Dead Leaves?

I mean like Dead Leaves. Or, or, or even Keijo- Which has a hell of a lot more substance than, like,

anything. Or Keijo perhaps. Um, yeah. Keijo is brilliant satire. Fight me. Um, on a pool, in, you know, on a stand in, in a pool and, you know, um-

With your butt.

Yes. With your butt. And my egg cups. Um, but no, I, I w- I would say, like, I, not having seen any of the series, I don't look forward

to seeing the rest of the series as based on the director's, uh, comments on this movie. Mm-hmm. But, you know, she's cute. I love a good comedy, even if

it's mindless, so I wouldn't mind going to see the sto- the, see the, the story. And, like Dawn said, the, you know, when she- ... started watching this movie

and then went back to the series, it gave her sort of a backstory, albeit, uh,

uh, anachronistic, um, of this deep love that the main character had for her all along, and then she could see it develop as the, as the comedy went along.

So there's obvious value into watching this out of order. But

I like this as just a concise little movie. I don't, I don't think I really need more.

Hmm. Yeah. There's a lot of fans who they saw this movie, and they were like, "You know what? I'm good. I don't need to see anything else. Like, I'm,

I'm fine with just this." And that's totally cool because, you know, like we've been saying, this is very much, like, first and foremost, like, a Mamaru Oshii movie, and

secondly, an Urusei Yatsura movie. Um, that said, like,

if you...

I- if the thought of a Mamaru Oshii movie is like, "Ooh, yeah, that sounds like my jam," and you wanna watch it, like, it, the, the, the Blu-ray gives

you, like, all these liner notes and tells you, like, who these characters are. So you can kinda go in and just, like, read up a little bit about it,

and then you're up to speed. Like, it gives you a good introduction that you'd be like, "Oh, okay, so this is what they're all about, and now I can

watch the movie." But, um, I would kind of agree that, like, it's not,

it's not the best introduction to the series. Like, it can be for some people, but I wouldn't go out on a limb and be like, "Yeah, start here, everybody

start here." Um, like I said, I th- I think the first movie would be kind of more of a better introduction because it kind of, like I said, it

mirrors, like, that first episode, first couple of episodes, I should say. Um, but again, that's not, like...

It doesn't tell you, like, the whole story. So I feel like if you, if you do want, like, just an introduction, like a straight-up introduction, like, the first couple

episodes of the TV show would be the best

if they were available.

Um, but the thing with that is, like, the TV series never looks as good as, like, the movies. The movies look super good. Uh, so if you go back

and you watch the TV show, you have to realize, like, this TV show was done, like, in the very early '80s, uh, based off of a manga that started

in the late '70s. So, like, it looks very, like, this is a '70s TV thing. Um, but it's still, like, if you can get past that, like, it's so

funny and it's so charming, uh, and just silly and fun and weird. Uh, like, if you like just inherently weird, dumb comedy from Japan, like, you would probably like

it. Uh, although, I mean, I think I've mentioned this on, like, my podcast about Urusei Yatsura, but, like, it comes with a lot of caveats. Like, like we were

saying, Ataru is, like, a garbage man. Like, he's- Absolute trash ... he's, he's so bad, and there's a lot of, like, him trying to pick up women and him,

like, trying to grope women. And, like, if that's something that is going to really, really bother you, then I would probably not recommend it because, you know, this was

made a long time ago. This is characters that were made 40 years ago. So, you know, it, it come... Urusei Yatsura comes with a lot of caveats. Like, if

you, if you can get through this and this and this, like, it's pretty good. Um, but you have to remember that, like,

one, one of the reasons why this is so funny is like we were saying before, like, these are kinda terrible characters. And, um, y- uh, Ataru, Ataru is kind

of like, like we were saying, like a terrible guy, but he always kinda gets his comeuppance. Like, he's never, like, shown as being like, "This is how you're supposed

to be. This is a good person." Like, no, this is terrible. This is a person where his own parents are like, "Oh, we wish you were never born."

You know? So it's not trying to, like, glorify or glamorize the things he does. It's like, "Look at this really awful person and the crappy things that happen to

him," 'cause it's funny to see, like, dumb, awful people get, like, their comeuppance. But then there's also, like, you know, he gets beat up a lot, and there's a

lot of violence against him, so that's also not, like, super good. But it, it's, it's supposed to be done in, like, sort of a Looney Tunes-style comedy. So you

have to kind of take it as, like,

you know, like when you watch Looney Tunes and there's that, like, dumb violence. Like, it's not condoning the violence. It's like,

it's just trying to be like, "Isn't this ridiculous? This would never happen in real life." Like, you can't actually hit a guy with a giant mallet and he survive,

you know? It's a cartoon.

That's, that's one of my favorite things about the Takahashi style, honestly, is the just- Mm-hmm ... the absolute over-the-top,

you know, like the, the, the, the giant, you know, 300-pound hammer coming out of nowhere. Um- Right. ... as, as a fan, as a fan of over-the-top, ridiculous cartoon

violence from Looney Tunes- Yeah ... that was, that was part of... You know, Ranma 1/2 was one of the very first things I saw in anime. Uh, and, and

that was part of w- I think what made it an easy transition for me- Mm-hmm ... um, at, at the, you know, tender age I was in the early

'90s, is I was still, I was still watching, you know, a lot of the, the Warner Brothers stuff. Uh- Mm-hmm ... and, uh,

you know, uh, I, I appreciate it for what it is, with the understanding of, yeah, like, there's definitely... Like Ataru in particular of, of all of her quote-unquote "protagonists,"

um-

... uh, is, is, is one of the hardest to take. Uh, and he's- Definitely ... definitely, he, he's definitely, like, the, the least lovable, um, of them all. But,

but I... in, in when you look at, like- The, the way that harem anime function today, it's kind of, it's kind of refreshing oddly enough. Yeah, it is because

it's so different. The formula is completely different. And the funny thing is, like, there was never really another series that did the same exact formula. So even though people

tried to copy the idea, they never did it the same way. And I think in a way that's what makes it so special because, like, no one even attempted

to d- to do something like this because they were like, "Well, we can't do that because she already did that." Mm. "That's her thing. Like, no one can do

Urusei Yatsura. So we're gonna, like, kinda copy it, but, like, we're gonna make it

worse"

I guess. Generations to come.

Right. So but I think that's, like you were saying, that's one of the reasons why I feel like a lot of her comedy is so universal, because it's very

physical comedy, it's very slapsticky. Like, everyone gets, like, oh, it's funny because he got bonked on the head, ha, ha, ha. You know? It's, it's... Like, anyone from any

country could see that and be like, "Ha, ha. That's funny.

He go- he got smooshed by a big, giant weight that a girl dropped on him." You know? Like,

it, it makes no sense. It's very out there. It's like, you know, none of this would happen in real life 'cause it's so over the top, and weird, and

crazy. They also have, like, very Looney Tunes cartoon faces, like, when- Yes. ... they get hit or when something happens, and it's, it's, it's so good. Yes. The faces,

especially in those older Rumiko Takahashi series, are so good. So the next question is from Nitro who is @mdiskplaylist on Twitter. Uh, favorite shots from the movie, and they

say theirs would be when we slowly see the top, uh, the town on top of the turtle from Mendo's plane. Ink, what's your, what's your favorite s- shot of

the movie?

Uh, favorite shot was actually when they were going through the school at night, uh, with the flashlight, and, uh,

the main characters, uh, come, comes to a sliding door, and he slides it open, and it's just that r- uh, two mirrors facing each other of him and the

sliding mirror, and the circle of light, uh, going down the infinite hallway of vision. And it not only represents what's going to happen in the film and what is

happening in the film, um, but it's just a really beautiful shot. Dark colors and wood grain, and, um, it was really entrancing. And if I could further the question

to scene, I'd have to go with the, um, the initial transition into the, the dream state with the sort of night parade of a hundred demons, which is four

demons, um, sort of just going along a street. I think it's a- an advertisement for a sale or something they say in the, the movie. Um, but- Oh, the

band. The band that's playing. Yeah. Yeah. The, the faceless band. Mm-hmm. Uh, and it's just this wonderful spooky element that turns them around and sort of hightailing it. No

one's discussing what they saw at all. It's just, uh,

"Okay, yeah, this night's getting weird."

You know, if, if, if you're

versed in mythology, you know, you just don't interact with those things. You just go away from them.

But I, I thought I really dug that scene. Yeah, those two are also two of my favorites. They're, they're both really good. I think- Um, oh, I'm sorry. Go

ahead.

Yes, first.

Oh, mine? Oh gosh, I have so many. Like, those two that you brought up are also two that, like, come to mind whenever I think of that movie. Those

two scenes,

instantly I think about those. Um,

I also like the scene where they're all walking to school, and you see those big puddles, and the, the shot,

uh, kinda goes upside down and you see instead of the inverted shot with them walking so it would look upside down, it's flipped and it's right side up, so

you see their reflections pass by. And it's just... it's really composed, like, really well. So it looks like,

uh, you can see, like, the sky in the puddles, and you can see them, but, like, also the leaves are floating by, so it's very dreamy. Um, I also

really like

that scene where Shinobu kind of, like... it's, like, right after that, where Shinobu kind of drags from the group, and she kinda gets sidetracked into that alleyway with the,

the wind chime merchant. Yeah. And then you just see all of those wind chimes just, like, floating through the alleyways, and she's just, like, kind of entranced, like she

doesn't know what's going on. It's a very sort of, like,

Alice in Wonderland sort of thing. And it's really interesting because,

like, all of these, all of my favorite shots are basically, like, something that's very ordinary, but it's presented in such a weird way that it kind of feels, like,

really eerie.

Mm-hmm. And, like, I love that kind of stuff 'cause, like, I'm a fan of horror, so, like, any, any scenes that are almost, like, horror-esque in here, like, I

really latched onto, like, really early on. I was like, ooh, this is, like, really spooky and interesting. Which is, like, you don't see that in, like, Urusei Yatsura stuff

proper. So, um,

so this movie is one of my favorites just, like, visually 'cause it has... it, it goes through a wide range of, uh-

... inspiration. Like, there's, there's so much different... It goes through so many tonal shifts that, like, after a while you kind of are just like, "Wow," like, there's so

much going on, but somehow it all works, like, really, really well.

Jared?

Um, I think

those are both, those are both scenes I really like. Um, to, to be different though, I will say I enjoyed the sort of dynamic feel of the scenes where

the, the school kind of infinitely extends out in, in either direction, and you've got Ataru, uh, running around in that, and then Lum flying through it, and it, it

gets this real... Yeah, particularly with Lum flying through it, it has this s- like, uh, just so peak '80s anime kind of look to it. Oh, yeah. Uh, that's,

like, really great. Mm-hmm. I, I really like that one myself. But the one, the, the one with the, the water and seeing the reflections, that was... That's probably overall

my, my very favorite, and of course, I, I like the wind chimes, too. Um,

but I, I really liked that, that just, that whole,

uh, as soon as that came up, I'm like, "Oh, yeah, it's the '80s."

Right?

Um,

so yeah, I think, I think probably that one.

All right. We've got a series of questions from- Yeah ... Lum Ranma Yasha. So this person may be a Rumiko Takahashi fan.

Yes. Trust me. Possibly. This per- this person has, uh, asked me lots of questions on my podcast, so hi, I recognize you, Lum Ranma Yasha. And thank you for

writing in. Um, so you wanna, you wanna take the first one, Ink?

Sure. Uh, "Oshii's dissatisfaction with Only You led to Beautiful Dreamer adopting a more surreal, psychological turn. Do you think the liberties Oshii took with Beautiful Dreamer made it more

entertaining than its predecessor, or do you feel it diverges too much from the heart of Urusei Yatsura?"

I have never watched the original, so I am not qualified to comment. I guess I'm probably the only one. Yeah. Um, I definitely like Beautiful Dreamer more than I

like Only You. Like, I think Only You is good, but, um, the story is kind of just like,

uh, it's good, but it's not great. Um,

but visually it's, like, it's really good looking. Yeah, I mean, Oshii knows what to do to make a movie look nice. Uh, but it's just, uh, there's no comparison

when you try to compare it to Beautiful Dreamer, 'cause they're just two very different things. Uh, the first movie is him just trying to be very Urusei Yatsura, like,

as much Urusei Yatsura as possible. And the second movie is him trying to get as far away from that as possible. This is a very him movie, like I've

been saying. Like, this is a very Mamoru Oshii movie. Um, but I think, like we were saying, he still gets those characters, and he still gets what makes them

special and why we like them. And so regardless of it being, like,

not really an Urusei Yatsura movie, it still is. And, uh, you know, that's why it's so beloved, I think. Like, it's just a very

heartfelt at times movie, but with, like, all these Mamoru Oshii twists put upon it. Um, so I'm glad he made it. I know he's said, like, sometimes he regrets

making it or regrets some of the choices he made in it, but I feel like it wouldn't be the same if he had changed it, you know? Like, I

feel like this is just

pure distilled, like, at the time, like, him doing something

that he wanted to do but still in, within the confines of these characters.

Yeah, I, I think it, it would've been a loss for, for us all had he not done the movie the way he did it. Um- Mm-hmm ... you know?

And I'm, I'm glad that it's such a, a d- it's not really an exemplar of Urusei Yatsura, but it's so, so different from it, because, you know, with, with

something as, as storied as, uh, that franchise is, it's, it's kind of,

you know, it's kind of one of those things. There's, there's plenty of, there's plenty of opportunities for there to be an exemplar of Takahashi's work, and specifically Takahashi's work

within the context of Urusei Yatsura. Um- Mm-hmm ... so the fact that we get something different from that is, is really, is really great, I think. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Well-

I agree

... and I'll add on to that by saying, like, you can love a band's song, and you can love the way they play it, and another band can play

it note for note, and it'll be the same song with different voices, and it'll just be, like, that half a note off or that, that little bit of divergence

that gives you an extra thrill in hearing it. But to hear another band really take it in another direction while still keeping its core elements- Mm-hmm ... that's what

I love about covers. Yeah. And this is kind of what that movie is to me, even though I haven't seen the rest. I've heard the director speak to how

much he's already done of the series and how much he wanted to do with this movie. Mm-hmm. And that really speaks to kind of what I like to enjoy

about media. Mm-hmm.

Yeah. That's, that's definitely a good metaphor, I think, for, uh, for what, like, Urusei Ya- for what Beautiful Dreamer is, really. Um, I know there are, there are people

out there who, like, they still don't like this movie because it's just so different from the series proper, but, like- I feel like

we're at a time now where I feel like it's more widely, like, accepted now.

Like, I think people have had years to think about it, and they're like, "You know what? This is a really good movie." I don't think it's, it's as divisive

as it used to be. Um,

but there are still people out there who, like, they either really, really love it or they really, really hate it. I love it regardless of, like, being tied to

something else or not because I just... It's just a really well-done movie, and it just happens to have characters that I really, really love in it. So,

you know, it's a win-win for me.

So let's see. The next question in the lineup was how would you compare the dreamlike atmosphere of Beautiful Dreamer with Oshii's other films? Do you notice any themes he

would refine and express in his later works? Hmm.

Oh, definitely. Like the whole, like, what is reality? What is time? What... You know, this is a very,

this is a very Oshii subject that you see him, like, dabble in way more in the movies that would come after this. So, like, things like Ghost in the

Shell, Angel's Egg, uh, you know, very, very much him, like, building upon those. Like, well, not just, like, what is a dream and what is reality, what does it

mean to be human? What does it mean to, you know, feel things and, you know, stuff like that. So there's definitely a lot of Oshii-isms that, like, you see

the seeds of them in this movie, I feel like, because this is his first real time to, like, kinda spread his wings just a tiny bit, spread his legs

out, and be like, "You know what? What if I just did things just my way, just a little differently?" And, you know, I feel like as he got more

comfortable, like, we definitely see more of that in, like, his later stuff. Um,

like I said, that, that Brian Ruh book, like, if, if you, if y'all ever get a chance to, like, read it, like if it's at your library maybe or

you just pick up a copy, like,

when you start reading about, like,

the,

the, the themes that you s- repeatedly see over and over in his stuff, like it starts... You see a lot of dots being connected. Mm. Um, and that's not

to say he doesn't have a sense of humor or anything because obviously, like, the first half of the Urusei Yatsura TV series is the best. Like, that's not opinion.

That's fact. Mm-hmm. The stuff that he did is the best,

um, 'cause he's a funny guy. Like, you know, there were, there were funny jokes in Beautiful Dreamer even. Like, I mean, it wasn't constant joke for joke for joke

for joke, but there's, like, there's funny gags in there. Mm-hmm. And, like, even later when he did, like, the Patlabor series and the Patlabor movies, like, those are all

so fun and funny. Like, maybe not so much the second Patlabor movie, but, like, the first one, there's there's still jokes in there, and even in the second one

there's, like, there's still a little bit of humor here and there. Um, so it's not all serious with him all the time. Um, I think he finds his way

to, like... You know, if he wants to be funny, you know, he, he finds a way to do it.

But, um, but yeah, he definitely

waxes philosophical a lot. Mm-hmm. I mean, I think that's an, I think that's an understatement.

But, uh- Sorry, I crawled. Sorry.

But you, you definitely see kinda like the start of it in Beautiful Dreamer, like when they start talking about, like, the concept of time. Like b- you know, what

is time, you know? Yeah.

I feel like, uh, a, a... And, and maybe it's a valid comparison, and maybe it's just because it's fresh on my mind 'cause we just did, um,

Mamoru Hosoda's Wolf Children, uh, for our last, uh, last month's episode. But, you know, uh, Hosoda started out doing, you know, Digimon stuff and- Mm-hmm ... and, and I

have not seen those Digimon films, but I bet you that he goes under a s- a fairly similar evolution where- Have you, have you seen Summer Wars? I've seen

everything else. I just haven't seen the Digimon stuff. Yeah. If y- if you've seen Summer Wars, then you've seen that Digimon movie. Oh, awesome. Then yes. Awesome. It, it,

it's basically him remaking the Digimon movie into slightly different, uh, characters and story. But, but yeah, that, that Digimon movie is basically like proto Summer Wars. It... Okay, cool,

'cause that's kind of, that's kind of wh- what I kinda feel like we're seeing at this point in, in Oshii's career when he does Beautiful Dreamer, is we're seeing-

Mm-hmm ... we're seeing the auteur he is going to become. Um- Mm-hmm ... but, but he's constrained by, you know, having to work in somebody else's sandbox. And- Right.

Right ... you know, it's, it's... Obviously he goes on to do some pretty amazing stuff, so. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. That's why it was so cool when, like, um, you

know, uh, he and, uh, you know, some of his industry friends, like, made Headgear, and then they all made Patlabor together 'cause those were their characters. And so they

were able to play around with them as much as they wanted to. Yeah. And that's what makes Patlabor so fun.

Patlabor's good stuff. Mm-hmm. Ink, what you think, man?

I don't have too much, uh, too much to offer on top of that, honestly.

You two are far too eloquent for me.

Okay, he must've had a lot of beer now.

What? Um, um, I haven't picked up a bottle. Yes. Uh, I'll just go onto the third question then. Um- There you, there you go

I think both Beautiful Dreamer and Lum, uh, Lum the Forever are on the metatextual level criticizing the stagnancy of the series' status quo and fans embracing what both directors

considered repetitive. How do you feel about both films explored that theme and critiqued Urusei Yatsura?

Ugh. I don't think I could really fairly compare it to Lum the Forever. Um,

that was the one he was saying, right, Lum the Forever? Mm-hmm. Uh, 'cause I haven't watched it in a long time, admittedly, so, um, my memory of it is

sketchy at best. Um, but I feel like, overall, I feel like what Oshii did with Beautiful Dreamer

was better, in my opinion. Uh, or at least, you know, I liked it more. Um,

but Lum the Forever,

I remember

being like, "I'm not sure I really understand what, like, the director is trying to say here." Um, but like I said, admittedly, that was quite some time ago, was

the last time I saw it. Uh, at least five years. So

I can't confidently

give, like, a really great answer, so I apologize for that. Um,

but- That's still a better answer than Ink or I could give.

I feel like, you know, most of the, most of the Urusei Yatsura movies are fun in their own way, um, and have, some of them have interesting things to

say. Um,

I remember Lum the Forever did, like,

it did have some sort of, like, you know,

like there's, there's a quote I do remember where someone says, like, "There, there are people who are going to come into your lives, and sometimes they're not always gonna

stay there, but you remember them, like, in your hearts forever, even though y- they're not with you anymore." And, like, I feel like that's not a bad message to

leave people, you know?

Um,

so I feel like most people who work on, like, Urusei Yatsura projects, like, have their

best interests of the characters in mind. Like, I feel like most people who worked on Urusei Yatsura really did love these characters and wanted to do right by them

regardless. So,

you know, some, some I feel

connected with that maybe a little bit better than others. But, uh- Mm-hmm ... overall, I feel like, you know, the movies are all pretty, pretty strong. Like, the only

one I really didn't care for that much was, um, Lum the Forever.

Or no, not Lum the Forever. Um, The Final Chap- no. Gah, God. Ugh. I'm getting tired. It was that one from the '90s, right? It was the, uh- Oh

yeah, Always My Darling. That's the one. Yeah. God. There's so many movies, I get all the names mixed up. Um, but yeah, Always My Darling, um,

eh, it was okay.

Um, I feel like they could have just ended on The Final Chapter, and that would have been j- you know, you know, just end there and that's good. There's

that '90s, ruin everything from the '80s, like it does. Well, they also did a, an OVA in the

2000s, the early 2000s for the Rumiko Takahashi exhibit. And, like,

I tried to watch it, and, like, you know, it's done digitally and colored with computers, and it just, it feels weird. Mm-hmm. Like, I'm so not used to those

characters, like, looking so sharp and clean. So

it was very strange to me.

But, um, you know, bless them, they, they tried to make something new for the fans, and I do appreciate that. But, like, I feel like it's weird going back

to that, like, trying to make it look like it used to. Like,

I don't think that really works. Like, I feel like if you were gonna make a new

Urusei Yatsura thing, like, you would have to pull, like, an Osomatsu-san. You'd have to just, like,

make it look a little bit more modern, a little bit more cutesy, and then just, like, make funny little vignettes. Mm-hmm. Just, like, funny little things, like,

that are kinda modern but not really. Like, you know. Uh, so, like, that's kinda my dream, because, like, um, Osomatsu-san, that was done by Studio Pierrot, and they did

the original Urusei Yatsura. So I feel like if you got those people and were like, "Hey, you get to make a new Urusei Yatsura, like, thing. Like, do that,"

I feel like they could probably do it.

Uh, but, like, that's probably never gonna happen. Like, I don't know if Rumiko Takahashi would be, like, up for that. She'd probably be like, "Mm, I don't know."

You know, it's funny, I don't know if you've seen Kyokai no Rinne, her, her latest thing, but a lot of the, there's, like, three seasons of it, and a

lot of the, um, a lot of the, the episodes are kind of broken up into these mini episodes. So the, the first, the, the A part would be one

story, and the B part would be another story. And I, I feel like that format

could probably serve Urusei Yatsura pretty well, if they wanted- Yeah ... to do it that way. Well, yeah, 'cause, uh, actually, the original TV series was set up that

way. Like, the old '80s show is u- is usually, like, two stories in one episode. Oh, okay. So that's kinda like going back old school. Uh, I guess they

were like trying to be like, "Hey, what if we did it like old school Rumiko Takahashi?" Um, I haven't seen it because, like, I,

I read part of the manga, like when it first came out. Like Viz had like a free preview chapter. Mm-hmm. Well, or like several chapters or something, and like

I read it and I was just like, "Ah." It just didn't grab me. I was like, "Mm." Yeah. I don't know. But I've heard like it actually is pretty

cute and funny, uh, if you just kinda like go over that hump of like the first little bit. Um, so I keep meaning to like maybe go back and

see if like maybe it grabs me now, 'cause this was like back when the manga first started, so that was at least like, what? Almost 10 years ago. Oh

yeah, that's been a minute. Yeah. Yeah. So like I don't know, maybe I was just like not feeling it back then. Like maybe I would kinda feel it now.

Um, I think the other thing is just like her art has changed a lot. Oh, yeah. Uh, so,

uh, I m- I really miss those like cute, soft, like kinda blobby faces that she used to do back in- Mm-hmm ... the '80s. Uh, even like early Ranma,

like you know. Oh, yeah. Uh, but now it's like everyone's all pointy looking.

And- There's a, there's a question for you. Do you think that's more towards, uh, or more f- the effect of, say, editorial, uh,

guidance or, uh, management? Or is that more just her developing as an artist, maybe- Uh ... taking in and changing as she grows? It could be like a mix

of both really, because I mean, she's been drawing for a long time, and you know, styles evolve. 'Cause like the first part of Urusei Yatsura looks completely different than

what it looks like now. I mean, the first time we see Lum, she looks more like a, uh, like a mini-skirted go-go dancer, and like she has l- uh,

horns that are actually kinda longer, so they look almost like devil horns. Mm. Uh, she looks more like sultry and sexy. Uh, she doesn't look as cute.

So like i- it really kinda makes you go like, "Wait, that's Lum?" Like, "Eh, what? She doesn't look like that." Um, but she was supposed to be, oddly enough,

she was supposed to be a one-off character. She was supposed to just show up for that first chapter and then never again. But she was so popular that when

she brought her back for a second time, like everyone was like, "Oh boy, she's back." And she was like, "Oh, I guess people like her, so I guess I'll

just keep putting her in." Gotta sell that manga, so we're keeping her.

Well, and also, like Urusei Yatsura was supposed to originally be like a, like a seven or eight chapter story. Te- Oh, wow. If you can believe that. Has she

ever done anything in seven or eight chapters in her life? 'Cause ...

Well, some of her like short stories, like yeah, um, you know, she, you know, before she did like her long serials, like she would do short stories and stuff.

Um, so some of her first works were just like, you know, couple chapters and that's it. But, you know, this was like, it just took off. She was just

like, "Ooh, you guys like this? Okay, let me just

do a whole bunch of stuff."

Um,

but um,

I feel like,

uh, on the one hand, like yeah, her art's gonna change because she's been drawing for like over 40 years. I mean, your art is gonna change periodically. I mean,

it's, it's pretty apparent. Like if you look back at early Ranma, and then you look at the final volume of Ranma, it looks different. Um, and the same with

Inuyasha. Like Inuyasha at the beginning looks different than Inuyasha at the end. Um, so

there's that, and then also like the influence of, you know, her editors and maybe just shonen manga in general, 'cause I feel like a lot of shonen manga now

is like very angular and kinda pointy. Yeah, that's true. Uh, I mean, for lack of better words. Like everyone just looks pointy. Like pointy hair, pointy chins. Um,

so I feel like, you know, that might have been an influence as well, 'cause like all her stuff runs in shonen, uh, or seinen books. So,

you know, that's, that's

something that was probably also an influence. 'Cause if you look at like more of the recent drawings of Lum she's done, like Lum also doesn't, she doesn't draw Lum

the same anymore either. Like she also looks like she came out of like a recent like shonen manga.

Like she looks a lot different. Uh, that's not to say it's bad. I'm just like, you know,

we all have like our favorite like era of an artist, and like my favorite era is geared more towards like the '80s and maybe the early '90s. Mm. That's

like the sweet spot for me. I know that feel. But I mean, sh- regardless, she's still like amazingly talented. I mean, it's, it's so impressive that like to this

day she is still cranking out like all this manga. Like- I mean, most people get one big franchise manga under their belt if they're lucky. Mm-hmm. Yeah. She's got

like f- four probably at least. At least, and then there's like- I mean, that's insane ... you know, and then she has like her lesser known stuff like the

Mermaid Saga, uh, like you were saying, One Pound Gospel. Oh, God, I forgot all about the Mermaid Saga. Oh. Yeah. Yes. Which I also love. Um, and then like

her Rumic World stuff, like her short stories. Mm-hmm. Um, which a lot of those got animated into like little one-shots. And, um, you know, she's, she's been doing this

for-

... so long, uh, that, like, you know, there's bound to be changes throughout her art over the years. I mean, just to think about her career, I mean, and,

and think about how many adaptations she's gotten,

you know, y-

I think you're hard-pressed to find a, a more prolific, more successful manga creator, manga author,

um, than her. I mean, it's, you, I mean, you're, like outside- Well ... of, like, Tezuka, right? Like- Yeah, I was gonna say, uh ... like people, people that

are still alive at least. I, it's, but she's in that conversation with those folks- Oh, definitely ... I think. Definitely. You know, that's, that alone is, is just, like,

incredibly impressive. Yeah. Um- Yeah.

And, and she's been just a role model for, like, so many creators, not just in Japan, but, like, all over the world. Oh, yeah. Like, there are so many,

like, American comic artists that I've met or that I've, like, read interviews with them where they totally cite, like, her work as, like, being the thing that was like,

"Oh, I wanna make comics like this," you know? Like, "I wanna make really out there and cool stuff." Like, or I've met women who are like, "I'd never thought

I could draw comics until I was like, 'This woman draws these comics, and they're amazing,'" you know? So her influence has just been staggering, and that's why I was

so happy when she finally won that Eisner because, like, I feel like she's been such an invaluable

y- artist to not just, like, Japan, but, like, the English-speaking world. Like, I feel like we wouldn't have nearly as much cool stuff being made now if we didn't

have her influence on these people years and years ago. Oh, and I think that's entirely true. Yeah. Uh, let's see. Um, the next question is, "How do you reconcile

Mujaki and Baku's appearance in Beautiful Dreamer with their earlier drastically different appearance in the anime and the manga? Baku in particular looks completely different in the film. Which e-

interpretation of the characters do you prefer?" Uh- ... I have only seen one of those, so I- ... I think I like Beautiful Dreamer.

Yeah, like-

I love Beautiful Dreamer. Uh, Mujaki looks kinda more, if I recall, Mujaki looks more like a court jester-y character in the original.

Um, but he still kinda has the same face, I think. Um, well, no, actually.

Yeah, he does look kinda different. Um, I feel like it's just,

you know, Mamoru Oshii's like, "Well, this isn't in the regular continuity with the TV show, so who cares?" Like, "I'm just gonna make it how I wanna make it

look."

And, um, I also like Baku in the movie 'cause he looks really cute. He's just this cute, big-eared pig. He's just adorable.

Um, I, I honestly can't remember what he looks like in the manga and the TV series.

Having a hard time remembering. I mean, I can remember Mujaku 'cause he kinda comes early on in the anime, I think. Um,

but

yeah, I think I definitely prefer them in Beautiful Dreamer 'cause I think they look more polished. I mean, I know they're, they're, they look way different than, like, Rumiko

Takahashi's original designs, but, um, I think making Mujaku look more

kinda like just a small human and less of, like, a weird, blobby

court jester looking thing, um, makes him more

threatening, if that makes sense. Yeah, yeah. 'Cause he, he's more like a person. Like,

y- you get more of, like, a,

like a, "Oh, you're on the same level as me," like, kind of, 'cause he looks, he looks really dopey in the original. Like- He kinda reminds me of, like,

a little evil cherub in this one. I- Yeah ... you know, with the round face and everything, and- Mm-hmm ... he's got a very gag manga kinda look to

him. I, I- Oh, for sure. Yeah. Yeah, I, I, I really like the way he looks here, not that I've seen it anywhere else, but I think it's affecting

quite well for, for the kind of character he, he is and the role he plays in the story. Yeah, I feel like you can take him more seriously as,

like, an antagonist. Um, he doesn't look like just this goofy thing that you could just, like, kick over and be like, "Ha, fooled you."

Yeah. He's, he's got that sort of assumptive appearance that lets him blend into anything, and that len- lends a, a degree of animosity to every scene he's in because

he could be anything, and- Right ... you know, sort of lends that ominous air to that scene. I, I got a, a feel of sort of a La Roue

salesman, uh, the- Oh, yeah. Mm ... uh, because he's also this just big, you know, humanistic but, you know, very circular being, very non-human but human. Mm-hmm. And he's

also very creepy in every scene he's in.

Yes. But, uh, yeah. Yeah. I, I kinda got the same vibe. Yeah, that, that makes sense 'cause, like, La Roue salesman has actually been around for a long time.

Mm-hmm. So, like, I wonder if there was any sort of influence on that maybe. I don't know exactly when the original came out, but I- I think the s-

I wanna s- oh, so then it definitely could be 'cause, you know, that was way before Beautiful Dreamer.

I know there was, like, an '80s version of the anime. Yeah, no, the, the manga goes way back. Mm-hmm. Yeah, so that could have definitely been a influence maybe.

Hmm. Hmm. I never thought about that. You know, things from a certain age in manga and anime tend to, tend to resemble each other, so that's entirely- Mm-hmm ...

that's entirely possible, kind of a sign of the times type thing. But- Yeah ... um. And it could've been something that Oshii himself had, like, watched or read back-

Yeah ... in the day, so.

So the last question

is: Finally, how would you compare Ataru's reaction to Lum not being in his harem in the film with how he reacts to the same circumstance in Inaba the Dream

Maker, and what do you think that says about how similarly and differently Oshii and Takahashi saw, saw Atar- Ataru's relationship with Lum? The last part I think we kinda

answered a bit already, but, but let's- Hmm ... unpack in that, too. Um,

what's Inaba the Dream Maker? Um, that's, that's a later chapter of the manga, and, um, it was also made into, uh, an OVA later. Ah. Um,

if I recall,

in Inaba the Dream Maker h- it's a little less emotional. He just gets, like, really upset that just Lum isn't there.

I believe. Ugh, it's been a while since I watched it w- which is funny, 'cause that's one of my, m- one of my favorite OVA episodes. But, um, yeah,

I don't think it was nearly as emotionally impactful as in Beautiful Dreamer 'cause in Beautiful Dreamer he's basically like, if Lum i- if there's no Lum here, then, you

know, a harem without Lum isn't worth having. Like, you know? Yeah.

'Cause she's like the number one. Would you say he's, uh, a little more grown-up in Beautiful Dreamer and sort of trying to manipulate the dream, uh, the dream giver?

Uh, as opposed to the other one where you said he's, uh, a little more emotionally forward and just sort of childish in his, uh...

Yeah. I feel like Oshii made him a little bit more,

a little more, like, honest

and gave him a little bit more credit, I feel like

than, than some other, uh, directors do. Uh, and, and maybe Takahashi at times. Like, e- he gave him this, you know, sense of like, yeah, he's, like, terrible, but,

like, deep down this is...

He... I feel like he was trying to show us, like, this is the, the Ataru that Lum loves.

This is, like,

the, one of those rare moments where you see, like, this is what she likes about him because he's definitely, like,

you know, when the chips are down, Lum is his number one. Like, he loves Lum, and I feel like that's universally accepted mostly because of this movie.

Hmm. Like, I feel like if this movie never got made, like, people would probably be questioning it a little bit more. Like, they would be like, "No, he probably

likes Shinobu more," or, "He probably likes, uh, Ran more," or, you know, something like that. But I feel like this movie really

was something that made fans go like, "Oh, well,

maybe he's not so bad. I mean, he's bad, but you know, he has his moments." Hmm. Maybe. Ataru, not a complete jackass.

Not actually the worst, but pretty close. Oshii, making excuses for harem anime.

There's a new T-shirt. Um- Anyway, yeah, I'm, I'm gonna ask one last question 'cause we, we haven't actually mentioned it, so. Okay. Um, Dawn, to you first, who is

your favorite character in Urusei Yatsura? Oh, that's so hard because there's so many good ones. I mean, obviously I love Lum. I think she's wonderful. Um, I just...

I feel weird, like, saying she's, like, my, like one of my waifus because- Mm-hmm ... like, I, I don't, I don't wanna, like, have her as a girlfriend, but

I just, like, she... I wanna protect her. I f- I feel like I'm one of her Storm Troopers. Like, I just wanna, like, be like, "You're the best and

I love you" and, "I wanna protect you from Ataru 'cause he's garbage." Even though- Perhaps, perhaps it's like she's, like, one of your cartoon daughters. I... Yeah, even though

she's technically older than me. Yeah, yeah. But I love, I love Lum. She's so great. She's so wonderful, and she's just really cute and charming. I mean,

she's,

she's, like, sort of, like,

early, early moe. Hmm.

Yeah, yeah. If that makes sense. But I also love, um, most of the girls in, in Urusei Yatsura are really great. I love Benten. Benten is awesome. You don't

really see Benten in this movie. Um, I love Reno, Ryunosuke. She's great. You see her very briefly in this movie here and there. Um, but she's awesome. I love

her. Um,

I kinda love Mendo because he's s- so awful.

Hmm. He's, he's hilarious to me. Uh, and plus he's voiced by Akira Kamiya, and so, like, you gotta love that. Akira Kamiya is, like, iconic. Yeah, that's pretty strong.

Right?

And he's so funny. Like, you're not used to, like, Akira Kamiya being just, like, so dopey and silly. You're used to, like, when you hear, "Oh, this character's voiced

by Akira Kamiya. Oh, like, like, this is North Star," and, like, all that cool stuff, right? And it's, like, nothing like that at all It was more a caricature

of that Right.

I mean, ugh, there, there's just a lot of, like, really fun characters. But I feel like, um, Lum and Benten and Ryouunosuke are probably my favorite three, if I

had to pick three.

Sure. Inke, how about you?

I asked first.

I have, I have one, and it's really easy. It's, it's Nurse Sakura. Oh. She is great. Oh. I also love Sakura. She is so good. So good. So good.

She is so good. The, like, she's... Like, she uses this really direct form of Japanese, so she's basically, like,

half cussing you out whenever she talks to you. All the time, yeah. And, and- Yeah. And like the... Her prescribing medicine is amazing 'cause it's a giant jar. And

she'll say, like, "Take one of these," and she'll hand you, like, a Costco-sized jar of pills.

A- and, and then she gets it wrong, and then she's on a, like, a racing bike, like desperately trying to make sure this guy doesn't take laxatives. But then

she discovers, "Oh, God, he's just sitting in this really incredibly dusty apartment. I can't, I can't even deal with this. And so- ... now I'm gonna throw him out

of it. But oh, crap, I've thrown him out a window. I gotta go make sure he's okay." That... She won me for life- Wait- ... with that whole sequence.

And then- That whole- And then she goes, like, to try to catch him, and then stops, like, short of catching him because he's- Because he's- Because he's all gross.

He's all gross. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. So sh- yeah. Sakura is great. Oh, I can't believe I forgot to mention Sakura. Yeah. God. She's, she- My bad ... she's bae

for sure. She- Like a- She's, she's top tier also. Like, I love her. She's, she's, she's super great in the TV series too. Like, if you loved that whole

gag with her and Onsen Mark, like she has tons of those in the TV series. It's great. Like, my f- one of my favorites is, like, they all go

on, like, this vacation, and they're at, like, some sort of, like, resort. And, uh, she enters an eating contest, and like everyone's looking at her like, "This, this beautiful

babe is, like, entering an eating contest? Like, yeah right. Like, you're never g-" And she totally out-eats everybody.

She's just like, "Get out of my way."

That's- I'll give you a hint as to why she won. It's her animated stomach. Yep. Oh.

But yeah, Sakura is super good. I love her. She's so good. She's so good.

Inke, have I just- Also- Oh, go ahead. Also, uh, also I just love, uh, the fact that she has a really good, deep voice. Like, you don't see that

a lot- Yeah ... in, like, uh, anime women. And so the first time I ever heard her talk, I was like, "

That actually sounds like a grown-ass woman." Yeah. Like, you could totally believe she would be leading an armed revolt to, like, overthrow Neo Zion or something. Like- ... it's

that kind of voice. Mm-hmm. You know? It's, it's like- Definitely ... it's like, "Oh, yeah." She... No, she was great. Um, but, but like she... Apparently she's also some

kind of shaman or something too. It's- Oh, she's a, she's a priestess because, um, k- uh, Cherry, the monk, is her grandpa. Oh my God. See? That's, that's too

powerful. She's- Yeah. She's great. So she's the, she's the school nurse slash local exorcist.

That's so great. God bless Rumiko Takahashi, man.

Inke, have I totally stolen your bae or, or, or do you have a, a different, a different bae? 'Cause- There, there's more than a, more than enough of that

bae to go around, so- ... you didn't steal her. We can just share. Um, but yeah, that and Mujaki. Uh, love them both.

All right.

So Dawn, tell all of our incredibly massive, massive fan base, um- Well, two of them ... where- Me and Jared. All two of them- Oh. ... where they can

find, uh, your fine podcast and all of the great blogging you do.

Okay. Well, I am the host and producer of the Anime Nostalgia Podcast, which mostly focuses on stuff that is pre-2000s era. So like, uh, older anime, manga, and what

fandom used to be like before we had, you know, the social media and, like, all that fun stuff. And you can find that podcast, uh, pretty much wherever you

get your podcasts, if you look up the Anime Nostalgia Podcast, or you can find it directly at animenostalgiapodcast.blogspot.com. Uh, I also have a Tumblr, if you're into Tumblr, uh,

at animenostalgia.tumblr.com. And, uh, if you want to follow me on the Twitters

and, uh, you know, watch me post really fun, cute photos of my big, fat cat, uh, in between, you know, anime-related things and stuff,

Uh, I am on Twitter, @bunnycartoon, all one word.

Awesome.

Inke, where can we find you on the internet?

On the Tweety box @AnimatedInk. You can find me in the background of AniGamers editing others' pieces, uh, of some really great writers as they, uh, write about anime and

games and sometimes manga. Um, I also produce the three-episode test column, so every season rolls around, we give you a good idea of our own writers' takes on shows.

So if you notice you s- kind of skew towards one writer or the other, you can get their takes on some new shows and see if you might wanna

indulge in them or not waste your time. Uh, other than that, I'm kind... Oh, actually, uh, on Taikou podcast, I'm their official bad anime sports correspondent. Uh, we'll be,

uh, reviewing Hanabado and- ... Harukana Receive pretty soon. And, uh, I'll be on the Anime is Lit podcast to talk about Chihayafuru before the, uh, premiere of season three.

Oh, I can't wait for that. Season three? Oh yeah. What, what a blessed day that will be. Oh, when they announced that, I was like, "Oh, oh, God is

real." They announced that literally, I was reading the, the book lit that came with the, uh, special edition of the, the volume two from Sentai. Mm-hmm. And in it,

they had a d- uh, interview with the director and, uh, he said, "Remember the, uh, the, the story's not finished yet, so stay tuned." And the next day I

woke up and everybody on Twitter was like, "Yo Ink, Ink, Ink."

That was a good day. Magical. Yeah. Oh. I remember, I remember walking out of a meeting because I was getting notifications on my phone, like in a rapid fashion.

And I'm like, "Okay, I need to go see what this is." And then I was like, "Oh my God." Oh my God.

It's happening. Yeah. I, I think people thought I was having a baby. Oh. Like I, myself, was having a baby. Like literally having a baby. Um- It's a tonka.

Yeah. It was, it was ... Oh, oh, I cannot wait. I cannot wait. The speech scene's so good. Oh, I should go re-watch that. Oh. Yes. I probably- We

should all do that ... I probably won't finish it before the new one, but oh, it's so good. Oh. Sorry, I just went on a huge tangent about Chihaya.

No, no, no. No. That's always welcome here. Um, as, as for where you can find me, you can find me here. You know where you can find me. Just

stay here. Don't leave. Just, just stay listening to Otakudo Radio- ... and you will find me every time. Um, but if you really absolutely, positively have to see me

occasionally tweet,

uh, then you can go to Twitter and follow me @savevsjared. Uh, which yes, is a play on words for D&D, because I am also a massive, massive, massive RPG

nerd. So, uh, yeah. And recently, in fact, uh, my, my brother, uh, Grant, uh, Grant's not actually my brother. We're just, we're blood brothers. It- we did a bonding

ritual. It, it was great. Um-

... Grant and I kind of took over the All Geeks Considered podcast, uh, to just have a, a nerdgasm about, uh, all kinds of different role playing games. Uh,

so if you, if you wanna hear me really, really, really, uh, get geeky, uh, then, then go tune into that, uh, fine podcast. And, uh, yeah, that's it.

And so, uh, from our guest Dawn, and from Ink, and from myself, uh, this has been another episode of Otakudo Radio, our second anniversary episode. And, uh, we- Two

years. Woo ... here, here's to, here's to two years. Yay. We've, we've got a pretty awesome year three, uh, in the works. We got some great, uh, some great,

uh, projects that we are working on. Uh, a little bit of a miniseries, uh, that if you feel so moon, you might enjoy it. And, uh- ... then that's

all I'm gonna say. But, uh- ... but the, the other bit being, uh, next month is October. It's our Halloween episode. We're gonna be doing Flowers of Evil. Uh-

Ooh ... we're gonna be talking about all of it. We're gonna be talking about the anime, we're gonna be talking about the manga, we're gonna be talking about how

crazy Shuzo Oshimi is. And we're going to be doing it with our friend Chris, also from the Taiku Podcast. So, uh, hold onto your hats. October's gonna be a

lot of fun.

And, uh- Nice ... yeah, it's gonna be awesome. So that's it, uh, from all of us here, and thank you. And we will see you again next time. Bye.

Catch ya.

Oh, remember. Oh. You, you gotta make love to that mic, man.